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Re: ISSUE-134 change proposals review - Part 1

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:19:15 -0400
Message-ID: <4F7596B3.7060407@intertwingly.net>
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
CC: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
On 03/20/2012 09:04 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> On 02/28/2012 02:56 PM, Paul Cotton wrote:
>> Tab
>>
>> Do you plan to update your ISSUE-134 change proposal?
>
> Since this question was never answered, the chairs are asking if anybody
> actively supports this proposal, and intends to either address the
> comments made by the chairs or would like the proposal to be considered
> as is.
>
> If no such response is received by March 28th, we will consider the
> proposal to be withdrawn.

We now consider the proposal to be withdrawn, and are marking issue 134 
as POSTPONED.

>> /paulc
>>
>> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

- Sam Ruby

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:43 AM
>> To: Tab Atkins Jr.
>> Cc: public-html@w3.org
>> Subject: ISSUE-134 change proposals review - Part 1
>>
>> The following is a review of your change proposal for ISSUE-134:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jul/0235.html
>>
>> This review if provided in order to help WG members improve the
>> quality of their change proposals and to ensure that the WG Chairs
>> make their views known about the completeness of change proposals well
>> in advance of moving the related issues to the survey stage.
>>
>> First this Change Proposal, as submitted, is missing a Details
>> section. This would likely repeat the Summary section, but for clarity
>> it would be best to properly include a Details section.
>>
>>> The stated problem should probably be solved with CSS, as it is an
>>> issue of presentation.
>>
>> You provide no technical motivation for "how" the problem might be
>> solved in CSS. Demonstrating this even with a small example would make
>> your argument stronger. Since the opposing proposal is arguing that
>> using CSS is not appropriate and/or too difficult this point may be a
>> deciding item in a WG survey of the change proposals.
>>
>> In addition to expanding on *how* the problem could be solved with
>> CSS, it would be good to expand on the *why*. You mention that it is
>> "an issue of presentation", but tablists, much like menus or buttons,
>> have both a presentation and a behavior. What makes tabs different?
>>
>>> If it is best solved in HTML, it is likely *not* through the provided
>>> solution, which overloads the<menu> and<command> elements with
>>> additional semantics, similar to the known anti-pattern exemplified
>>> by<input>.
>>
>> You seem to be waffling on whether this problem could or should be
>> solved in this version of HTML5. Your argument would be stronger if
>> you could give more technical reasons why a better HTML-solution might
>> exist or if you provided rationale for this change being part of
>> HTML.next.
>>
>> You have not provided a technical description of the so called
>> "<input> anti-pattern". Providing some more technical information on
>> why adding "additional semantics" is bad would make your argument
>> stronger.
>>
>> Elsewhere in your re-open request you state that several user agent
>> representatives are not in favor of implementing the change proposal at:
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/tablist_and_tab_states_for_menu_and_command_elements
>>
>> If you could provide actual evidence and technical rationale for those
>> statements directly in your change proposal that would make your
>> arguments stronger.
>>
>> In addition you should probably add information about the position of
>> user agent representatives to the Rationale section of your Change
>> Proposal to highlight this since it may be an important aspect of a
>> survey on ISSUE-134.
>>
>> Please let us know if you plan to update your change proposal.
>>
>> /paulc
>> HTML WG co-chair
>>
>> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Friday, 30 March 2012 11:19:40 UTC

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