W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > March 2012

Re: Encrypted Media proposal: Summary of the discussion so far

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:24:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CAAWBYDBRm4sE302vGASmCgX-nTMhboQ3uChWMR+a7MUVQeNt7g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com>
Cc: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>, Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>, David Dorwin <ddorwin@google.com>, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>, "<public-html@w3.org>" <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com> wrote:
>>> On Mar 13, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com> wrote:
>>>>> Again, we should not be aiming to restrict the web to only those applications based on a purely FOSS stack.
>>>>
>>>> That is, in fact, precisely what I and several other important
>>>> implementors on this list are aiming for.
>>>
>>> You can aim for whatever you like. I'm saying W3C should not adopt this as its aim because:
>>> 1) It's impossible - the web is whatever users and the companies they patronize decide it is
>>> 2) It's counterproductive to try and restrict innovation, by restricting the available technologies to those decided by a some subset of developers
>>
>> Non-FOSS technologies can't be implemented by some of the major
>> browsers that implement HTML.  Nor can they be implemented by some of
>> the OSes that those browsers want to be able to run on.
>>
>>
>>>>  Anything less than that is
>>>> insulting to our users that choose to use a purely FOSS stack, which
>>>> we recognize as a valid and legitimate choice.
>>>
>>> Or maybe it's insulting to users to claim that a whole swath of services they enjoy today on the web should not be there ?
>>
>> That's a different set of users.
>
> Ok, so we have to *balance* the needs of different sets of users.
>
> When a user chooses to use a purely FOSS stack they *choose* to forego those services which require non-FOSS capabilities. We should indeed try to maximize the set of services supported by pure FOSS stacks - to make that choice as painless as possible. But that is different from saying that services which use non-FOSS technologies should not be on the web.

Well, we have a browser which is legally prevented from including
non-FOSS technology.  It can delegate to royalty-encumbered and/or
closed-source code, but it can only do so on non-FOSS OSes.


>>  The existing
>> non-FOSS stuff that's more-or-less required in the web stack is a pain
>> we've already accepted and paid for.  It would be nice to avoid adding
>> *more* of it.
>
> We could argue about that, but that's not the point. This proposal *reduces* the amount of non-FOSS stuff: instead of huge plug-ins supporting who-knows-what, duplicative of HTML, we're trying to draw a line around the minimal part that, for better or worse, currently has to be non-FOSS. And while we do it we can enable independent evolution of those parts, in the directions that you and others are advocating. If you're objective is to have maximal use of FOSS capabilities, you should be *in favor* of this proposal!

Sorry, that doesn't fly.  As a simple example, Flash (a current plugin
capable of implementing DRM) is ported to Linux (and packaged by
distros that aren't *strictly* FOSS, like Ubuntu).  This means that
our Linux customers are capable of watching video using Flash to run
DRM.

However, based on my current knowledge, there's little interest among
the companies that produce the CDMs expected to be used in porting
these CDMs to Linux.  (Linux constitutes a tiny fraction of their
users, and thus it's not cost-effective to create and maintain a
port.)  Thus, our Linux customers are *not* capable of watching video
using those CDMs to run DRM.

This is a consequence of the fact that Flash is a paid-for pain point,
while royalty-encumbered/closed-source CDMs are a brand new source of
pain.

~TJ
Received on Wednesday, 14 March 2012 01:24:54 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:17:47 GMT