- From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:52:50 -0400
- To: "public-html@w3.org WG" <public-html@w3.org>
The decision follows. The chairs made an effort to explicitly address all arguments presented in the Change Proposals on this topic as well as rebuttals that were provided in response to the poll, and shortly thereafter. *** Question before the Working Group *** In XHTML1 and HTML4, the "object" element creates a new context, where the parent element is ignored when the content of object is validated. HTML WG has not reached consensus on whether the "object" element should be handled this way in HTML5. In an effort to resolve this issue amicably, bug 9657 has been raised. This bug has not been resolved and it is considered that further discussion in bugzilla will not result in the bug being resolved. This issue has been captured as Issue-158. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-158-objection-poll/results http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/FlowContentInObject http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-158 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Apr/0047.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Apr/0049.html == Uncontested parts of the proposals: Regarding FlowContentInObject, Ted O'Connor said: * The CP claims that, by changing the spec as proposed, we improve the accessibility of <object> "by allowing e.g. a diagram image to fallback to a table — without having to alter the possible p parent of the object element." This use case turns out to be an important factor in the decision but was not, by itself, not decisive. There were people who supported different proposals even after taking this fact into consideration. The fact that this was acknowledged up front was appreciated. == Objections to FlowContentInObject http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/FlowContentInObject * Those who would change HTML's paragraph model need to demonstrate significant benefits to the change. After all, there are numerous educational materials, tutorials, and reference guides which would need to be updated. This author of this statement also stated "It doesn't make sense to make HTML5 design decisions based on the behavior of a validator for previous versions of the language. That line of argument is a slippery slope that leads to the position that HTML5 should change nothing from HTML 4.01." Given that not a single education material, tutorial, or reference guide that would need to be updated was sited, and given that there was no push back to the assertion that this was previously permitted, this argument was given no weight. * Change Proposal does not explicate any particular benefit to this change. Given that the author of this statement conceded that there was a potential accessibility benefit, this statement was given no weight. * nesting is highly confusing to users This would be a strong objection if it were backed by anything resembling evidence. As it was not rebutted, this was considered to be at most a weak objection. == Objections to transparent content model of the object element http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-158 * Authors will add such content in anyway This is another assertion presented without evidence. The counter argument to this is that this is an area where confusion exists. * It works Given that there is an uncontested use case, this argument is moderately strong. * It has always been permitted Contrary to the rebuttal that has been presented, this is at least a weak objection; that doesn't mean that it couldn't be changed by HTML5, but that for it to change it needs to have a reason provided to do so. == Evaluation of arguments Many of the rebuttals focus on 'theoretical purity' arguments in both directions. It was difficult to cast the original arguments as objections, they were (generally correctly) contested, and at most would have been considered weak. As stated above, the 'priority of constituents' argument that a more complex specification would be tolerable given sufficient user need would have been considered strong if there were anything resembling evidence provided to back up this assertion. While relatively weak (no evidence was provided that this pattern actually occurs in the wild), the uncontested use case for the accessibility of the object element, coupled with "it works" and "It has always been permitted" represents a comparatively stronger argument against the "transparent content model of the object element" change proposal. *** Decision of the Working Group *** Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the "flow content in object" change proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/FlowContentInObject Of the Change Proposals before us, this one has drawn the weaker objections. == Next Steps == Bug 9657 will be REOPENED and marked as WGDecision. Once the editors have made the change, ISSUE-158 will be CLOSED. == Appealing this Decision == If anyone strongly disagrees with the content of the decision and would like to raise a Formal Objection, they may do so at this time. Formal Objections are reviewed by the Director in consultation with the Team. Ordinarily, Formal Objections are only reviewed as part of a transition request. == Revisiting this Issue == This issue can be reopened if new information come up. Examples of possible relevant new information include: * Evidence backing up the assertion that this change would be "highly confusing" to users. Ideally, such evidence would include multiple citations of non-obscure web sites that demonstrate the problem, and a description of the problems (in terms of real world consequences) that such usages create. * Any other evidence that the benefit of this use case is outweighed by the costs of the change. This could be by citing sufficient quantities of education material, tutorial, or reference guides that not only would need to be updated, and that doing so would impose an unreasonable burden. Alternately it could be done by arguing that "theoretical purity" in this particular case outweighs the use case. Other, new, arguments may also be possible. Feel free to complement such information with indications that the potential benefits don't overcome these costs: information such as alternate and better ways to address the use case, indication that the feature was rarely or never used, etc.
Received on Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:53:18 UTC