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Re: Review of ISSUE-164 change proposals - Part 2: CP no-change hgroup

From: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:25:49 +0200
To: "Paul Cotton" <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Cc: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.wh0q1bqlidj3kv@simons-macbook-pro.local>
Hi

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:00:51 +0200, Paul Cotton  
<Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:

> We have five change proposals for ISSUE-164:
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-164
>
> The following is a Chairs review of the following change proposal:
>
> CP no-change hgroup (ISSUE-164)
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Nov/0031.html
>
> 1. Structure of change proposal
>
> The proposal includes an appropriate Summary, Rationale, Proposed  
> Details and Impact.
>
> 2. General comments on change proposal
>
> a) Rationale
>
>>  <hgroup> support has been shipped in multiple browsers,
>
> This statement appears to conflict with the statement in the "replace  
> hgroup with the subline element" [1] change proposal which states:
>
>   *   Or by implementors: in terms of its semantics and effect on the  
> outline algorithm
>      *   zero implementations

It is not in conflict, I belive, they are both true. I'm not aware of any  
browser that implements the outline algorithm. However, multiple browsers  
have shipped support for parsing of <hgroup> (it implies </p>) and default  
style (display:block). I don't know the implementation status about  
reporting the element as a heading to AT.

http://html5test.com/compare/feature/elements-section-hgroup.html (I have  
not checked what the test checks.)

> Providing direct proof of where hgroup is implemented and that the  
> semantics matches those described in the HTML5 spec would greatly  
> strengthen your change proposal.  If the semantics are yet the same in  
> currently shipping browsers you should state what is supported clearly.   
> Providing data on any planned enhancements from the current support  
> would also strengthen your proposal.
>
> Note that some of the arguments for this position may already exist in  
> the current text in your Impacts section "During the transition period  
> until the outline algorithm is universally
> implemented, subtitles will be shown as sections in legacy outline  
> impl."   As mentioned above your Rationale would be stronger if you  
> explained the current implementation status more clearly in your  
> Rationale section.
>
> In addition your change proposal would be much stronger if you provided  
> counter arguments for the arguments in the other change proposals.
>
> Please let the Chairs know by Tue Jul 31 if you plan to revise your  
> change proposal and when you can do the revision by.
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hgroup

I do not plan to revise my change proposal. However if anyone else wants  
to revise it, feel free.

cheers

> /paulc
> HTML WG co-chair
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>


-- 
Simon Pieters
Opera Software
Received on Wednesday, 25 July 2012 20:26:23 GMT

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