W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > August 2012

Re: FORMAL OBJECTION (was RE: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-204 aria-hidden)

From: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:38:16 -0700
Message-Id: <3964F0FD-C4E2-48F8-BA0C-0F7C39A4E33D@jumis.com>
Cc: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
On Aug 14, 2012, at 4:27 PM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote:

> (1) For a sighted user using the keyboard (or other alternative input):
> - The image shows up, and none of the associated text is read out loud, and the link is not in the tab cycle.
> 
> (2) For a user using VoiceOver, with default settings:
> - When the VO cursor is on the image, the screen reader says "the reddit logo", pauses briefly, and says "image"

Note that there may be a visual indicator of where the cursor is at this point.


> - When the user hits Ctrl+Opt+Shift+H (the VO shortcut for longer descriptive text), the screen reader says "the reddit logo, showing the reddit alien mascot".
> - The link is not in the tab cycle.

Would the link wind up in the link rotor? 

Within this example, it does seem more appropriate that the link exist on the image itself. There are other tags that may make for a better example, something like abbr, for instance.

In existing browsers this particular example is not too harmful--  the user may get some bracket quotationmark http noise, but nothing too bad.


Maciej, there are strong considerations to be had for other ATs. VoiceOver could certainly be programmed to do anything, including recognizing links, firing click events on hidden elements and even showing them to the end user. Safari could do that too. But, it does adjust some of the meaning and semantic of aria-hidden and label. Those were setup as a pair in deference to many existing software systems. Note that ARIA 1.0 does not have the concept of links beyond simple IDs.

It's still my opinion that a hypertext/rich label or description would be better served by first adding a new semantic, such as aria-describedat (and longdesc mapping) so that authors in this field can write backward compatible and friendly hypertext.

In the case of your example this would mean a plain text version with existing semantics (aka, "alt") and a hypertext/rich text version with a new aria tag and/or longdesc.

With that setup, we can all get what we're hoping for: compatibility and extensibility.

-Charles
Received on Wednesday, 15 August 2012 03:38:44 UTC

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