W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > November 2011

Re: CP remove hgroup add an outlineMask attribute.

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:56:53 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=QhaZ2T=-9r+0-CZ6tPgkqMcss3jrQaU6624e32ji4zg@mail.gmail.com>
To: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Hi James,

> To the extent that one believes in semantics, the semantic of
"subheading" is clearly different from that of "heading".

I don't disagree with this, but  hgroup does not fulfill the function of
differentiation. The only explicit semantic it has specified is in
reference to how a subheading must be mapped to accessibility APIs. In this
regards there is a must level requirement that the such subheadings are to
be collapsed into the main heading. The subheading semantics is removed.

this is why i have resubmitted my subline proposal:
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hgroup

regards
Stevef



On 7 November 2011 13:49, James Graham <jgraham@opera.com> wrote:

> On 11/07/2011 02:28 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
>>
>> The<hgroup>  element has no uniquely useful function other than to remove
>> a
>> heading from the outline generated using the outline algorithm.
>>
>
> As a general point, I disagree with this statement. To the extent that one
> believes in semantics, the semantic of "subheading" is clearly different
> from that of "heading" and it is not hard to imagine that UAs may want to
> process them differently even when they do not implement the full outline
> algorithm; e.g. a search engine may want to rank such text above normal
> body text by below fully heading text, or an AT might want to read a
> subheading together with its associated heading but in a different voice.
>
> This is not to say that something like <h2 subheading> could not work. It
> has a reasonable fallback story but is verbose and feels a lot like a
> violation of DRY, therefore making it ugly. It also has the same problems
> that other proposals that don't group the heading and the subheading; that
> is it makes it easy to author in a way that is not processed as expected
> (e.g. putting the subheading before the heading without explicit <section>
> elements), and hard to implement correctly (presumably subheadings could
> occur anywhere in a section so one has to scan a lot of the tree looking
> for them).
>



-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 7 November 2011 13:57:44 UTC

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