W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > November 2011

Re: CP no-change hgroup (ISSUE-164)

From: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:21:52 +0100
To: public-html@w3.org, "Lars Gunther" <gunther@keryx.se>
Message-ID: <op.v4kbyqx9idj3kv@simon-pieterss-macbook.local>
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:11:53 +0100, Lars Gunther <gunther@keryx.se> wrote:

> 2011-11-06 11:27, Simon Pieters skrev:
>> ISSUE-164
>>
>> SUMMARY
>>
>> No changes.
>>
>> RATIONALE
>>
>> <hgroup> support has been shipped in multiple browsers,
>
> But not in any meaningful way. The subtitle is not hidden as it should  
> be.

AFAIK browsers don't expose the outline so don't implement the outline  
algorithm.

> Removing hgroup "support" in browsers should be trivial.
>
>> books explaining
>> its use have been sold, and content on the Web have started to use it.
>> Removing <hgroup> (and possibly using a different element or markup
>> pattern to solve the use case) is disruptive.
>
> At least in the mind of the spec editor and a few more it *was* and  
> still *is* possible to remove <time> and instead use <data>.

Removing <time> was not really successful, as far as I can tell. It  
backfired. It was disruptive.

> <time> has seen considerably more use than <hgroup>.

Citation needed.

http://www.google.com/codesearch#search/&q=%3Ctime%20datetime=%20lang:html&type=cs
140

http://www.google.com/codesearch#search/&q=%3Chgroup%3E%20lang:html&type=cs
179

(Google code search probably doesn't match use on the Web perfectly, but  
it's a quick test and gives a rough picture.)

> <hgroup> is *not* being used in any meaningful way yet, since there are  
> no tools that actually honors its meaning. (At least no one has ever  
> come up with an example of the opposite in any discussion that I have  
> participated in.)

The only tools I know of are outliners that implement the spec's outline  
algorithm.

-- 
Simon Pieters
Opera Software
Received on Monday, 7 November 2011 06:20:40 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Monday, 29 September 2014 09:39:28 UTC