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Re: CfC: Close ISSUE-134 tab-states by Amicable Resolution

From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:18:25 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+c2ei_ktiG0oZtPoSv7GkZpTR5KMTQsaMVyr8C1W=kfV7jm_g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Cc: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, "Ian Hickson (ian@hixie.ch)" <ian@hixie.ch>
So I have a few concerns with this.

First off, I'm not convinced that this is the right approach to adding
support for tabs to HTML. Elements tend to see the most success when
they come with good behavior, a decent default rendering, and the
ability to tweak rendering such that it can fit with the rest of a
site's look and feel.

Reusing <menu> to create tab lists doesn't appear to archive this. One
problem is that it integrates somewhat poorly with CSS. It also makes
the <command> element significantly more complex since it now can
represent both a "action button" and a tab panel (also a tab, though
that could possibly be argued is a "action button"). This reminds me a
bit of how <input> is abused to represent all sorts of form controls
which introduces significant complexity both in implementation and in
API. And of how <object> is somewhat abused to create references to
all sorts of external types of data, again with a result that is both
complicated to use and implement.

In fact, I think <command> already suffers from being overloaded by
both being able to represent a menu item and a toolbar button.

The reason I haven't spoken up before is that I simply haven't had
time to experiment with implementing <menu> and <command> in Gecko. We
recently started to experimenting with this a bit, but it's too early
to give feedback based on those experiments.

Once we have more concrete feedback to give we will provide it. In the
meantime I think I would prefer to not expand the feature set
supported by these elements. However I do understand if the WG would
like to see more concrete feedback and ignore this email in the
meantime.

Also, aren't we past feature freeze?

/ Jonas

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> If no objections are raised to this call by July 12th 2011, we will direct the editor to make the proposed change.
>
> At this time, we find that we have consensus on the following proposal for ISSUE-134:
>
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/tablist_and_tab_states_for_menu_and_command_elements
>
> Bug 10831 will be REOPENED and marked as WGDecision.  Once the editor has made the change, ISSUE-134 will be CLOSED.
>
> /paulc
> On behalf of the HTML WG Chairs
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-html-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cotton
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:13 PM
> To: public-html@w3.org
> Subject: CfC: Close ISSUE-134 tab-states by Amicable Resolution
>
>> ISSUE-134 tab-states - 'Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively'
>>
>> The current status for ISSUE-134 is as follows:
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134
>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-134
>>
>> We have a single Change Proposal to Allow menu and command to represent a tablist":
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/tablist_and_tab_states_for_menu_and_command_elements
>>
>> At this time the Chairs would also like to solicit alternate Change Proposals (possibly with "zero edits" as the Proposal Details), in case anyone would like to advocate the status quo or a different change than the specific one in the existing Change Proposal.
>>
>> If no counter-proposals or alternate proposals are received by July 1st, 2011, we will proceed to evaluate the change proposal that we have received to date for ISSUE-134.
>
> As we have received no counter-proposals or alternate proposals, the chairs are issuing a call for consensus on the proposal that we do have.
>
> If no objections are raised to this call by July 12th 2011, we will direct the editor to make the proposed change.  If anybody would like to raise an objection during this time, we strongly encourage them to accompany their objection with a concrete and complete change proposal.
>
> /paulc
> HTML WG co-chair
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 14 July 2011 00:19:23 UTC

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