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Re: ISSUE-130 table-layout - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:31:08 +0100
To: Doug Jones <doug_b_jones@me.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, HTML WG Public List <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20110114213108668093.84d6b2a0@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Doug Jones, Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:34:48 -0500:
> I fixed the problem I caused, and my proposal is at
> 
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/NoLayoutTable


Some comments:

FIRSTLY: The HTML4 yoru CP points to says 'should not' and not 'must 
not'. Thus it is incorrect to claim that HTML4 does not permit tables 
to be used for presentational forces.

SEONDLY: Those problems that HTML4 describes are much less relevant 
today. It is enough to look at the dichotomy that HTML4 describes - and 
which you echo: 'authors should use style sheets to control layout 
rather than tables'. As things have developed, this has become largly 
false dichotomy - exactly via CSS, authors can control tables. In fact 
is possible to read what HTML4 says as saying «rather than trusting 
tables, authors should trust css». Those problems which HTML4 describes 
are such that I have trouble understanding what the description is 
about - but it is more about function than about philosophy.

THIRDLY: No risks, you say. But perhaps there is a risk that authors, 
who could have increased their pages' accessibility by  adding aria to 
their table based pages, just let their pages be as they are, because, 
after all, their pages causes no error in theor current state, while 
they would get validation errors if they added aria to their tables.

As for the third, point, then I don't agree with myself. I tend to 
agree with Ian in that an honest @role is a 'godsend', which allows 
authors to check whether they have used an element for a valid purpose. 
Perhaps the solution is to place ARIA validation in another cathegory 
in 'normal' validation.
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Friday, 14 January 2011 20:31:45 GMT

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