W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > January 2011

RE: hgroup: a possible alternative

From: Dean Leigh <dean.leigh@deanleigh.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:18:49 -0000
Message-ID: <1174F8ED82AF7048905B3241C81BF17BC16500@HEMV1AUKER.he.local>
To: "Leif Halvard Silli" <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Philip Jägenstedt <philipj@opera.com>, "HTML WG LIST" <public-html@w3.org>
I agree with the roles as defined by Leif on this one i.e.

1. <hgroup> is a simple mechanism that allows sub-headings <sh> to be associated with any level heading (h1-h6) by containment.
2. There can be more than 1 <sh> (if so named) in an <hgroup>
3. But <sh> (like <li> to <ul>) can only be used within <hgroup>

Therefore:
	<hgroup>
		<h1>Main</sh>
		<sh>Sub</sh>
	</hgroup>

Seems to address usability, accessibly and implementation.

I assume the next questions will be should we allow more than 1 <hx> within an <hgroup>?

The current example from http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/sections.html#the-header-element  is:

<header>
 <hgroup>
  <h1>Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) 1.2</h1>
  <h2>W3C Working Draft 27 October 2004</h2>
 </hgroup>
 <dl>
  <dt>This version:</dt>
  <dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/">http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/</a></dd>

If <header> restarts the level/numbering of the <hx> anyway then does this example really need <hgroup>?

Regards,
Dean Leigh

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: public-html-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-request@w3.org] On
>>Behalf Of Leif Halvard Silli
>>Sent: 12 January 2011 00:30
>>To: Philip Jägenstedt; HTML WG LIST
>>Subject: Re: hgroup: a possible alternative
>>
>>Leif Halvard Silli, Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:14:51 +0100:
>>
>>>> Philip Jägenstedt, Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:35:53 +0100:
>>
>>>>>> Why not simply say that <hgroup> may contain a single heading
>>>>>> element pluz zero or more <sh> elements?
>>>>>
>>>>> How would that be better than the <hgroup> solution we already have?
>>>>> Sounds like it's just renaming a <hx> element to <sh>...
>>>
>>>> 1) it solves what Steve's main problem with the current model:
>>>      [ snipping the 5 points ]
>>>
>>> 6) Forgot to mention CSS: this content model makes hgroup easier to
>>> style.
>>
>>Regarding ARIA:
>>	- The <sh> would have a similar role as the <caption> and
>><figcaption> element - that is, currently, no role (speaking in ARIA terms).
>>	- <sh> would caption the content of the <hgroup>.
>>	- The content of <hgroup> would be the <hx> element.
>>	- The <hgroup> element would thus have a role similar to the
>><figure> element - that is, currently, no role (speaking in ARIA terms).
>>
>>Thus, in contrast to the current content model, no elements would need to
>>change their ARIA roles when they occur inside the <hgroup> element.
>>--
>>leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 12 January 2011 08:19:52 UTC

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