W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > April 2011

Re: changes to headings in ARIA in HTML5

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 18:57:06 +0100
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=sp0Y+qqUd95X=hFgahxEwDHzUoQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
Hi Ian,
sad to see you would rather play games than implement the changes as
requested.

the following emails wwere sent to HTMLWG WG
<public-html@w3.org<public-html@w3.org?Subject=Re%3A%20Working%20Group%20Decision%20on%20ISSUE-129%20aria-mapping&In-Reply-To=%253C4D6ECE19.4090707%40intertwingly.net%253E&References=%253C4D6ECE19.4090707%40intertwingly.net%253E>>,
Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch<ian@hixie.ch?Subject=Re%3A%20Working%20Group%20Decision%20on%20ISSUE-129%20aria-mapping&In-Reply-To=%253C4D6ECE19.4090707%40intertwingly.net%253E&References=%253C4D6ECE19.4090707%40intertwingly.net%253E>>


on 2nd of march 2011 I wrote [1]:

Ian hickson wrote:

"In the interests of avoiding mistakes, could you provide me with a set of
edit instructions that state exactly what should change to fully comply
with this decision? I fear that attempting to apply the vague change
proposal in the original CP followed by the diff to that proposal quoted
above will result in errors."

I have provided here
http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/aria-changes.html

A copy of the aria section revision 1.4093. with the required changes:

the required changes are in the 2 data tables.
each deletion and insertion is marked using the <ins> and <del> elements.

NOTE: the deletion of the rows in the data tables pertaining to the table,
tr, td and th elemnts is NOT part of the change proposal, but were removed
earlier by the html5 editor and NO agreement on re-inserting them has
occured, but have mysteriously re-appeared in this version of the spec, so
need to be removed once again


on march 2nd 2011 Sam Ruby wrote [2]:

On 03/02/2011 05:33 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
> Ian hickson wrote:
>
> "In the interests of avoiding mistakes, could you provide me with a set of
> edit instructions that state exactly what should change to fully comply
> with this decision? I fear that attempting to apply the vague change
> proposal in the original CP followed by the diff to that proposal quoted
> above will result in errors."
>
> I have provided here
> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/aria-changes.html

Thanks!

If anybody spots any errors that need to be corrected before this text
is incorporated, I encourage them to speak up now. However, if such
errors are identified later, bug reports that bring the text in line
with the decision can be filed.

- Sam Ruby


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Mar/0067.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Mar/0071.html


On 10 April 2011 18:14, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Apr 2011, Steve Faulkner wrote:
> >
> > Hi ian,
> > you wrote on IRC:
> >
> >    1. <Hixie> oh wow, this is awesome
> >    2. # <http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20110409#l-97> [01:09]
> >    <Hixie> the aria thing actually breaks h1-h6 in ATs
> >    3. # <http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20110409#l-98> [01:10]
> >    <Hixie> (it removes their nesting depth)
> >    4. # <http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20110409#l-100> [01:10]
> *
> >    Hixie cries a little inside
> >
> > As i know this is of great concern to I think you will be pleased to find
> > out that youhave misinterpreted the changes to headings:
> >
> > If you had looked at the spec changes i had provided and which Sam and I
> > pointed you [1] to you and Sam had agreed was representative of the
> decison
> > you would have seen that
> > Hx continues to have the same default role and allowed role of heading:
> > "heading role, with the aria-level property set to the element's outline
> > depth"
> >
> > I don't think that the other chairs would disagree?
>
> The changes you describe are quite clearly not at all an occurate
> portrayal of the decision, since there are changes listed there that are
> not listed in the change proposal at all. For example, your document has
> all manner of changes relating to tables, which are not even mentioned in
> the change proposal or the decision. Plus, regarding headings
> specifically, your table suggests that authors should be required to apply
> an aria-level="" property to every heading, which is just absurd.
>
> I confirmed with Maciej before making the change that the list in the spec
> is in fact what the decision was, and after going through the change
> proposal details and the decision himself, he agreed that bug 10066
> comment 33 accurately represented the change proposal and decision.
>
> Given that the decision has all manner of what I consider mistakes (e.g.
> it is inconsistent about whether menuitemradio and radio vs
> menuitemcheckbox and checkbox should apply at the same time, it gives
> different allowed roles for <area> and <a>, it has the quite ludicrous
> decision of allowing buttons to be exposed as links and radio buttons, and
> it even allows a heading to be made into a treeitem, not to mention the
> issue above regarding not allowing headings to be marked as headings), I
> intend to exactly follow the chairs' decision as written here, and not
> apply my own judgement.
>
> If we're allowed to start questioning the decision, there are certainly a
> lot of things I'm eager to have changed as well.
>
> --
> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
>



-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Sunday, 10 April 2011 17:57:54 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:17:27 GMT