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Re: hgroup and ARIA outline in ISSUE-129 [Was: SSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - chnage proposal and replacement spec text]

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:33:19 +1100
Message-ID: <AANLkTin2QcuKpOG8gSCPNqZY+24ja9kQp9qti-3DVyWT@mail.gmail.com>
To: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Hi Ben,
I think you are right, I misinterpreted the spec in regards to
<hgroup> I will modify the change proposal to reflect this, I just
need to think a little more about what the correct mapping should be.

best regards
Stevef

On 22 November 2010 18:59, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
<bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Steve Faulkner
> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>> change proposal: ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6
>> - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
>> associated specification text:
>> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
>
> Under "basis for defining h1 to h6 element that does have an hgroup
> ancestor", the Change Proposal states:
>
> "It is not logical or practical that the semantic information about
> both the heading elements contained within the hgroup and the hgroup
> itself is conveyed to assistive technology."
>
> Why?
>
> The Change Proposal continues:
>
> "In order to provide a heading structure to AT that is more sensible,
> it is proposed that headings inside a hgroup have a default role of
> presentation. This will result in only the one hgroup heading (instead
> of 3) being reported to AT."
>
> This introduces a significant difference between the outline algorithm
> specified by HTML5 and any outline generated using ARIA.
>
> I'm not a colossal fan of how HTML5 repurposes the old hX elements,
> but I think it should at least be consistent between HTML semantics
> and the accessibility tree.
>
> In HTML5 only the first highest ranked heading contributes to the
> "hgroup" text; in this proposal all headings do.
>
> So given:
>
> <hgroup>
> <h2>Foo</h2>
> <h1>Bar</h1>
> <h2>Baz</h2>
> <h1>Quux</h1>
> </hgroup>
>
> in HTML5 the heading is "Bar" but in the proposal in the accessibility
> tree the heading is "Foo Bar Baz Quux" which subverts author intent.
>
> Applying "role='presentation'" would also block UAs from exposing the
> actual semantics of "subtitle" that lesser-ranked headings possess,
> were any accessibility API to include that semantic, since "For any
> element with a role of presentation and which is not focusable, the
> user agent MUST NOT expose the implicit native semantics of the
> element (the role and its states and properties) to accessibility
> APIs".
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#presentation
>
> I think this would be a more accurate reflection of intended semantics:
>
> <hgroup role="heading" aria-level="whatever" aria-labelledby="heading-text">
> <h2>Foo</h2>
> <h1 id="heading-text">Bar</h1>
> <h2>Baz</h2>
> <h1>Quux</h1>
> </hgroup>
>
> Spec text could be along the following lines:
>
> "hgroup element: heading role, with the aria-level set to the
> element's outline depth and the aria-label, and with the first
> highest-ranked heading element providing its accessible name."
>
> "hX element that does have a hgroup ancestor: No role."
>
> This would also "result in only the one hgroup heading  being
> reported to AT" when listing headings, and would allow UAs to
> represent subtitles to supporting accessibility APIs.
>
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
>



-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
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http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Tuesday, 23 November 2010 11:34:14 UTC

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