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srt mentions in w3c/html space Re: HTML charter and Timed tracks

From: Karl Dubost <karl+w3c@la-grange.net>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 05:47:01 -0400
Cc: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Sean Hayes <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "Maciej Stachowiak (mjs@apple.com)" <mjs@apple.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Message-Id: <B5E44F92-5294-448D-A127-7365A2A330A3@la-grange.net>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>

Le 11 mai 2010 à 04:40, Julian Reschke a écrit :
> So could you please point to a mail on public-html where the addition of WebSRT (or a similar format) to the HTML5 spec was announced (or discussed)?


Addition was not mentionned indeed.

It seems there were discussions a few times. [1]

Writing subtitles in, for example, SRT format and muxing them 
into an appropriate container format can be done with freely available 
tools.

[1] http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?keywords=srt&hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=&hdr-2-name=from&hdr-2-query=&hdr-3-name=message-id&hdr-3-query=&period_month=&period_year=&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-html&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date-asc


Here what I could find on w3c public-html mailing list and W3C wikis 


    Writing subtitles in, for example, SRT format and muxing them 
    into an appropriate container format can be done with freely available 
    tools.
    --- Lachlan Hunt, Mon, 01 Sep 2008
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Sep/0018

    * If a particular codec/media wrapper cannot support both in-band and
      out-band captioning (desirable and currently evident in Ogg/Kate
      examples being demo'd by Silvia Pfeiffer and Mozilla developers
      http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/demos/srt/index2.xhtml ), then
      clear instruction and specifications on how to 'in-code' provide the
      out-band solution must also be provided.
    --- John Foliot, Tue, 28 Jul 2009
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0809

    > I'm doing some work for Mozilla on finding the best way to include
    > captions, subtitles, textual audio annotations, and other time-aligned
    > text with the HTML5 video element. Right now, I have an experiment
    > with external srt files that relate to an Ogg Theora video.
    > 
    > You will find the details in my blog post. See the demo:
    > http://www.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/ .
    --- Brought by John Foliot, Wed, 29 Jul 2009 from a message of Silvia
    Pfeiffer
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0853

    Btw, the language of e.g. the srt files could have been derived 
    from HTTP if the files e.g. had a language extension - Apache 
    would usually interpret 'elephant.en.srt' as a English resourcs. 
    And ditto with regard to the encoding - 'elephant.en.utf8.srt' 
    would usually be delivered by Apache as a resource in UTF-8 encoding.
    --- Leif Halvard Silli, Fri, 31 Jul 2009
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0926


Silvia Pfeiffer for Topics for the HTML WG meeting at TPAC 2009

    3.3. What format to support for captions/subtitles?
    * there seems to be a need for a baseline caption/subtitle codec
    * srt vs DFXP vs. smilText? others?
    http://www.srt-subtitles.com/
    http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/
    http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL3/smil-text.html
    --- Silvia Pfeiffer, Thu, 5 Nov 2009
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Nov/0163
    
and added to the WG wiki by Laura Carlson
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibilty/TPACSession

In the minutes of the TPAC 2009 session about videos
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-video-minutes

    silvia: i look at these issues from two perspectives
    ... from the professional community
    ... and also from the web community
    ... people out there, exchanging data
    ... it might be that within html we might propose implementing two
    ... SRT ...
    ... the free tools covert SRT
    
    glenn: there's no reason not to support it

    silvia: exactly, it's trivial to implement
    ... SRT as a baseline format
    ... I have nothing against DFXP
    ... if there are enough people to write tools
    ... it might be the right thing for a professional level
    ... for things like Color and Italics
    ... these are things that SRT does not support
    ... there's also been a suggestion of SMIL TEXT
    ... I don't know how SMIL TEXT differs from the other

    glenn: I would say W3 timed text support

    silvia: when I say DFXP, I mean W3 timed text

    glenn: ... and however many profiles come out of it
    ... it's a subset of timed text
    ... it will recreate enough to recreate timed captioning

    silvia: open captions should be a thing of the past
    ... and we don't want to talk about it anymore
    ... i'm surprised we don't have a more lively 
    ... discussion about baseline text
    ... even DFXP is comparatively is much simpler compared to video

    Matt May: ...

    scribe: I'll say that SRT is basically a subset of Timed Text
    ... it satisfies the basic requirements
    ... it has what to do when a caption enters and exits
    ... I wouldn't recommend that SRT be the lingua franca
    ... I wouldn't object to it existing
    ... in the flash implementation there are a number of SRT solutions

    eric_carlson: I'm not sure it makes sense to mandate SRT
    ... It's common enough, but underspecified
    ... someone would have to write a spec for SRT

    silvia: there's actually a proper web site for it
    ... there isn't a spec
    ... what we really need is a registered mime type
    ... i don't think srt would be a major issue

    dsinger: I think it would be a great thing that XIPH take over

    silvia: so, Apple ...

    frankolivier: and Microsoft

    silvia: are here

    frankolivier: I would say that SRT and DFXP are .., 
    things that could be supported

    Hixie: Google ...
    ... as we support OGG and MPEG
    ... will go for a superset

In the Minutes of 2010-02-17 telcon, Media accessibility group
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0638

Proposals have been made on WAI PF including srt
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations


    Generally the MultitrackAPI is being well received; the Media
    TextAssociations discussions are currently focused on supporting
    time-stamp formats: there will need to be continued discussion here, but
    the *trend* seems to be favoring .SRT files for legacy/backwards usage,
    and a move towards a profiled approach to DFXP; the concern is that DFXP
    is likely too "large" to support out of the box, so a stripped down
    version (or two) is likely the next step.  Work here is also very fluid,
    with no identified timeline/deadline at this point.  I suspect we will
    need to address that fairly quickly, and will seek to bring it up on
    Thursday's a11y Task Force call.
    --- John Foliot, Wed, 3 Mar 2010
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/0088


And the message from Henri Last month

    I suggest the following: 
    1) Support two captioning formats: plain
    SRT (the timed strings are plain text) and HTML-extended SRT (like
    SRT but the timed strings are HTML fragments).
    --- Henri Sivonen, Mon, 12 Apr 2010
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/0365


-- 
Karl Dubost
Montréal, QC, Canada
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
Received on Tuesday, 11 May 2010 09:47:37 GMT

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