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Re: aside and figure elements

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:30:07 +0200
To: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Cc: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100607193007452850.49f332ff@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Shelley Powers, Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:17:19 -0500:
> Laura Carlson wrote:
>> Hi Shelley,
  [...]
>> Shelley wrote:
>>   
>>> Disagree, 100%.

Though I am not yet in agreement with Steve, I think, Shelley, that you 
are wrong here. See below. 

>>> The figure element can have a dozen images, two tables, a code block or
>>> two, paragraphs, and div elements. The figcaption names all of this, not
>>> just the img element (s).
>>> 
>>> The alt attribute must be provided regardless of figcaption, as figure
>>> is defined now.
>>>     
>> 
>> Good catch Shelley. Okay, how about restricting it to:
>> 
>> When a figure has an image as sole content use a  <figcaption> as the
>> accessible name for the image. But in scenarios of multiple images in
>> a figure element alt rules apply.
>> 
>> Thoughts?

I think we need to work out in much more detail how we envision 
<figure> to be used. It is clear that we all have quite different ideas.

>>   
> 
> It could work, but the problem with all these rules and constraints 
> is that people will be confused, and will, most likely, use all of 
> the elements incorrectly.
> 
> I would say that img should be treated the same, regardless of 
> whether it's in a figure element or not. It should have a non-empty 
> alt tag. We hope people would have enough commonsense not to use 
> figure for a decorative image.

You yourself have quoted the example from WAI-ARIA (because you 
recommend using @role and aria-* rather than <figure>), where there is 
a caption *and* the image has role="presentation". Sorry, but I quote 
it again:

<div role="img" aria-labelledby="caption">
  <img src="example.png" role="presentation" alt="">
  <p id="caption">A visible text caption labeling the image.</p>
</div>

So even if the one - or all - <img> elements of a <figure> are defined 
to have role="presentation", that doesn't mean that the image as such 
is presentational. 
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Monday, 7 June 2010 17:30:43 GMT

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