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Re: draft HTML5: Techniques for the provision of text alternatives

From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:23:07 +0000
Message-ID: <55687cf81001200323s7c3258bqda8f53e149811964@mail.gmail.com>
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>, "Dr. Olaf Hoffmann" <Dr.O.Hoffmann@gmx.de>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Hi Laura, I plan to include an example using the figure construct, but am
waiting until the  element namimg issue has been decided in regards to this.


regards
steve

2010/1/18 Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>

> Hi Steve,
>
> I agree with Olaf that the Lady of Shalott examples may be problematic.
>
> Poetry markup is an important yet separate issue that Olaf may want to
> raise a bug [1] [2] [3] [4] to resolve.
>
> Until the poetry markup issue is decided, perhaps for 6.1 and 6.2 we
> could use something like we did for our May 2008 HTMLWG Action 54 [5]:
>
> <!-- Full Recitation of Alfred, Lord Tennyson's Poem -->
>
> Then the text alternative issue [6] won't be intertwined with the
> poetry markup issue [7].
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> [1]
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html#basic-step-1
> [2] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/createaccount.cgi
> [3] http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.0/html/using.html
> [5]
> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttribute#head-814d07bab27cf5b1e5059b93250952ca7e7e2bcd-3
> [6] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/PoeticSemantics
> [7] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
>
>
> On 1/18/10, Dr. Olaf Hoffmann <Dr.O.Hoffmann@gmx.de> wrote:
> > I think, the section 6 contains improper markup (and problematic
> content).
> > Poetry or a stanza/strophe is embedded in a p element.
> > The current draft of HTML5 as previous versions of HTML notes,
> > that p represents a paragraph. Paragraphs are prose and no
> > poetry and cannot contain any substructures like strophe-lines.
> >
> > My suggestion is to use either another format to markup
> > literature/text properly or to use divs with RDFa or some other
> > mechanism to indicate the role of the divs.
> > Especially for a non visual representation it is for many
> > people pretty confusing/depressing, if poetry is presented as prose
> > (I know this personally, because one of my nephews tends to
> > recite poetry much like prose ;o)
> >
> >
> > Another problem may occur with the relation of h1, h2, image
> > and stanza. The current order implies more or less, that
> > Alfred Lord Tennyson is the author of the poem, the image
> > and the alternative text - is this really true?
> > Some metadata (RDF) might be necessary to put the
> > relations correct.
> >
> > This problem is only slightly better handled with example 6.2
> > due to the hyperlink (not only because it points to an error 404 page).
> >
> >
> > According to wikipedia
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_of_Shalott
> > the image seems to show a replication
> > of an image of John William Waterhouse, not from
> > Alfred Lord Tennyson, while the alternative text is maybe
> > from another person, what means, it is effectively an
> > interpretation of the image, not neccessarily representing
> > the intentions of the image author.  Still it can be an alternative
> > for the image, however not related directly to the author of
> > the poem or the image...
> >
> > Is there a mechanism currently to relate metadata to the
> > value of an attribute like alt? If not, it might be better to
> > replace the old img with a new element with the
> > possibility to contain the alternative text as element content,
> > including metadata about the content ;o)
> >
> > The sample seems to be already old enough to be public
> > domain, therefore it is at least not really problematic for the
> > draft to blur all these relations. However, if the sample is
> > intended to be useful for current works, one has to put those
> > relations somewhere due to copyright restrictions - and even
> > without, I think, the works of authors should be always
> > honoured by putting the relations correctly.
> >
> >
> > Related discussion about the poetry problem of HTML in the wiki:
> > http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/PoeticSemantics
> >
> >
> > Olaf
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>
>


-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
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Received on Wednesday, 20 January 2010 11:24:03 UTC

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