W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > January 2010

Re: remove the meter element

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:30:03 -0800
Cc: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-id: <6BFA3D32-D6D2-4E6B-8BCB-3D911A2084E7@apple.com>
To: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>

On Jan 8, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>> Ooops, sorry, I meant meter element!
>>
>> S
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>>> I filed a bug, several weeks ago, on removing the details element:
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8555
>>>
>>> No decision has been made on this one.
>>>
>>> Shelley
>
> I disagree with this bug. I think having an element that can be used
> to display a gauge-like graphic will be useful for authors and will
> result in more semantic markup being used.
>
> However I really don't like the name "meter". It might be because i'm
> english is my second language, but I associate the word "meter" much
> more with the SI unit of length, than with a gauge-like instrument. I
> unfortunately don't have a better name for it at this time as I agree
> that "gauge" is probably too hard to spell.
>
> I do however think it's critical for CSS to enable the <meter> to be
> styled such that it gives authors a lot of control of how it is
> displayed. Possibly pseudo elements need to be introduced to select
> the "full" and "empty" parts of the meter.
>
> I do however think it would be interesting if we could merge
> <progressbar> with <meter>. After all, a <progressbar> is just a
> specific instance of a <meter>. Usually where the maximum is 100. This
> would also remove concern that people would use <progressbar> where
> <meter> should be used and the other way around. Suggestions to this
> effect would be very welcome to me.

At least on Mac OS X, the native controls equivalent to <progress> and  
<meter> are different controls with totally different native  
appearances and APIs. I also believe the elements as currently defined  
have some distinctive properties. <progress> can be indeterminate,  
while <meter> cannot. <meter> has the ability to indicate positions on  
the gauge that are low, high, or "optimum". I note also that they have  
somewhat different semantics. A <progress> element is nearly always  
constantly changing until it finishes; if it's static or stays still  
for a very long time, then you are doing it wrong. A <meter>, though,  
is very likely to indicate a static level that is likely to stay  
steady for a long time until a user action our outside events cause it  
to change. For all these reasons, I think they should remain distinct  
elements. On the whole I think it would be more confusing than helpful  
to overload the concepts of "level indicator" and "progress  
indicator", despite the superficial similarities.

Regards,
Maciej
Received on Friday, 8 January 2010 20:30:53 UTC

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