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Re: ISSUE-96 Change Proposal

From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:01:22 -0600
Message-ID: <g2l643cc0271004011201u5f53fb4cpf82dff7c1a99e64c@mail.gmail.com>
To: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:
> Hi, Shelley-
>
> Shelley Powers wrote (on 4/1/10 2:29 PM):
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Jonas Sicking<jonas@sicking.cc>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Shelley Powers<shelley.just@gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I was sold. And now you're telling me, this is nothing more than a
>>>> bridge?
>>>
>>>  http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/introduction#co-evolution explains it
>>>  pretty well. It starts out with
>>>
>>>  "WAI-ARIA is intended to be a bridging technology."
>>>
>>>  And later says
>>>
>>>  "It is expected that, over time, host languages will evolve to provide
>>>  semantics for objects that previously could only be declared with
>>>  WAI-ARIA. This is natural and desirable, as one goal of WAI-ARIA is to
>>>  help stimulate the emergence of more semantic markup."
>>
>> So when can we expect a color picker element in SVG?
>
> Sometime after I leave the SVG WG. :)
>
> That said, we have talked about high-level functional elements in SVG, to
> support common use cases.  For example, the Parameters spec (which is
> public) and the Connectors spec (for graphs and other uses of logical
> connections between element, which I'm still drafting).  Just because native
> form controls aren't appropriate for SVG doesn't mean they aren't for HTML
> (and using HTML form controls is useful for SVG).
>

But SVG has to be accessible, doesn't it? So, where are the semantic
elements that provide accessibility?

> Yes, you can use script+CSS+ARIA to create form controls from <p> or <li>
> (textbox, button, dropdown, etc.), but that doesn't mean it's always the
> best option or easy enough (even with script libs).  Form controls are
> useful, and serve as a baseline for common functionality.
>

Ten years ago, I would have agreed. Now, though, all HTML will be, is
a dead weight in innovation.

> Declarative, semantic markup is good.  Every time I show the new form
> controls in an HTML5 presentation, they are a big hit.

Curious: which ones did you demonstrate?

>
> Regards-
> -Doug Schepers
> W3C Team Contact, SVG and WebApps WGs
>

This discussion is become circular, evidently most people disagree
with me. That's fine. I don't agree, but will take my arguments
elsewhere.

Most of my proposals were about removing these so-called "semantic
elements". If the co-chairs want to close these proposals, since no
one agrees with me, that's fine too.

Shelley
Received on Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:01:56 UTC

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