W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > September 2009

Re: The <who> element (Was: Change back the semantics of <cite>)

From: Smylers <Smylers@stripey.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:48:08 +0100
To: HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20090911064808.GA4323@stripey.com>
Leif Halvard Silli writes:

> Leif Halvard Silli On 09-09-11 01.57:
> 
> > Smylers On 09-09-11 00.16:
> >   
> > > Whereas people, even when sources, do not typically have their
> > > names distinguished.  So using a <cite> for both prevents it from
> > > being able to convey anything useful    
> 
> Perhaps you would support a <who> element?

Well, I wouldn't object to it on the grounds of it confusing <cite>!  If
the scenarios below are found compelling to have their own HTML5 mark-up
(rather than, say, microdata) then <who> seems a reasonable way of doing
this.

>    The <who> element could:
> 
> * Mark up names of (or reference to) persons (including juridical  
> persons and personified things) and animals.
> 
>    * A human citation/source: <cite> <who> Truman</who> </cite> : "The buck
>      stops here".

Bah -- that's still causing <cite> confusion!

>    * Addressee of an address: <address> <who> Leif</who> , 0323
>      Oslo</address> 
>    * Someone spoken about: <p> I saw <who> Leif</who> .</p> 
>    * With emphasize: <p> I saw <em> <who> Leif</who> </em> .</p> 
>    * Someone acting: <p> <who> Leif</who> saw me.
>    * Instance defining who someone is: <p> <dfn> <who> Leif</who> </dfn> is
>      a friend.</p> (To use only <dfn> Leif</dfn> could seem strange and,
>      again, perhaps the name would be styled differently.

I think <dfn> would be reasonable there, if it's the defining instance
of the name being used elsewhere in the document.  If you wish to style
it differently from other defining instances then <dfn class=person>
could be used.
> 
>      (The above samples cannot be expressed using <b> , which the draft
>      recommends for names in gossip articles.

Why not?

>      But <who> could be used in such gossip articles ... )
> 
> * Enrich dialog/dl lists:
> 
>    <dialog> <dt> <who> Leif</who> joined<dd> <!--act--> </dd> 
>      <dt> <who> <cite> Leif</cite> </who> <dd> Hello!<!--speak--> 
>  </dialog> 
> 
> * Be used as basis for generating name indexes/person registers (from  
> everything marked up as <who> )
> * Have a broader use than the hypothetical <name> element.

I'm unconvinced that any of the above are improvements on simply not
marking up the names (or using classes on existing elements or <span> or
<b>), but if you're determined to mark up names then we could justify
creating <who> or <person> for doing that so as to stop people wanting
to use <cite> for it.  (Analogously to creating <dialog> to stop <dl>
having dual rôles, rather than because <dialog> is really needed.)

Smylers
Received on Friday, 11 September 2009 06:48:57 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:16:48 GMT