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Re: More on SVG within HTML pages

From: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:24:04 -0500
Message-ID: <4AA54FC4.1060708@burningbird.net>
To: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
CC: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>, public-html@w3.org
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Simon Pieters wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:21:55 +0200, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> More importantly, this is a HTML5 failure in waiting, because if 
>>>> people inline SVG, chances are they will inline whatever SVG they 
>>>> find in the wild, which may or may not include RDF/XML. Validly 
>>>> include, may I add, in fact recommended when it comes to annotating 
>>>> Creative Commons license info.
>>>
>>> I agree. This problem has no good solutions, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>>   1) Leave RDF/XML-looking stuff non-conforming. Bad because 
>>> copy-pasting leads to a lot of errors about stuff that browsers will 
>>> ignore--just like they ignore the contents of <metadata> in XML.
>>>   2) Perform full Namespace processing in <metadata> subtrees. Bad 
>>> because this would introduce considerable complexity in order to 
>>> shuffle around namespaces of stuff that browsers (and so far even 
>>> validators!) end up ignoring. Adding a lot of complexity to tweak 
>>> the DOM only so that it can be ignored doesn't make sense.
>>>   3) Leaving the DOM building as-is but proclaiming the 
>>> RDF/XML-looking stuff that infoset-wise isn't RDF/XML as conforming. 
>>> Bad because it would make authors believe that they are actually 
>>> using RDF/XML and worse because if someone wanted to consume that 
>>> data as RDF, they'd need to have dual code paths for text/html and 
>>> XML (and the DOM Consistency Design Principle is all about avoiding 
>>> that situation).
>>
>>  4) Make SVG <metadata> a RAWTEXT element. This will silence the 
>> validator with little effort on Henri, while allowing authors to 
>> invoke an XML parser on its textContent to get the same stuff as they 
>> get when using XML, with more or less the same code path as when 
>> using XML directly. It would still allow validators to validate the 
>> contents if they want to. This has the drawback that if authors 
>> copy-and-paste only the start tag and only test in legacy browsers, 
>> the rest of the page will be eaten in new browsers. The content model 
>> of the SVG <metadata> element would need to change to allow plain 
>> text, at least in text/html.
>
> Suggestion: take a random svg image out of wikipedia and search for 
> "sodipodi".  Getting rid of the errors in a small portion of the image 
> isn't going to undo the damage to both the adoption of SVG or the 
> adoption of the conformance checker by flagging the remaining "errors".
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
Starting with the Wikipedia logo, at 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Wikipedia-logo.svg

Shelley
Received on Monday, 7 September 2009 18:25:08 GMT

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