W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > September 2009

Re: More on SVG within HTML pages

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:37:59 +0000 (UTC)
To: Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>
Cc: public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0909071031300.24938@hixie.dreamhostps.com>
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Henri Sivonen wrote:
> On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:36, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > > HTML5 defines how to parse text/html into a DOM. It also specifies 
> > > above-DOM conformance requirements for elements in the 
> > > http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml namespace. It doesn't specify 
> > > conformance requirements for elements in the 
> > > http://www.w3.org/2000/svg or http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML 
> > > namespaces, so those are non-conforming as far as HTML5 itself goes.
> > 
> > That's not quite accurate. MathML's <math> and SVG's <svg> are defined 
> > to fit into specific content models, and thus are allowed in a number 
> > of places as children of HTML elements ("4.8.15 MathML" and "4.8.16 
> > SVG"). What goes on within the MathML and SVG namespaces is up to the 
> > MathML and SVG specs, however, and HTML5 doesn't have anything to say 
> > about that (other than as it affects elements in the HTML namespace).
> I agree that those sections define where those elements fit when some 
> spec licenses those elements to exist at all. But where does HTML5 
> define those elements as existing on its own?

I'm not sure what you mean by "existing".

> Are you saying that even if one doesn't invoke any MathML or SVG spec as 
> other relevant specs, the {http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML}math and 
> {http://www.w3.org/2000/svg}svg elements with no children and no 
> attributes are conforming where the sections you references allow them?

I'm saying that "The svg element from the SVG namespace falls into the 
embedded content, phrasing content, and flow content categories for the 
purposes of the content models in this specification", i.e. that <div> can 
contain <svg>. Whether <svg> is allowed to have a parent node from the 
HTML namespace, or is allowed to be used at all, or has any required 
attributes, or whatever, is a matter for the SVG spec.

> Or are you saying that some SVG spec and some MathML spec always have to 
> be invoked as relevant?

The SVG and MathML specs don't (as far as I know) say anything that 
contradicts the HTML spec, they just pick up where HTML leaves off. 
Whenever you deal with something in the SVG namespace, the SVG spec is 

Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Monday, 7 September 2009 10:34:38 UTC

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