- From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:20:33 -0500
- To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
- Cc: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>, Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>, Tony Ross <tross@microsoft.com>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> It is, but data-* does a poor job. >>>> >>>> SVGWeb can use a name, another JS library use the same name, and if a >>>> person wants to use both JS libraries together, they're screwed. >>>> >>>> The fact that data-* had no ability to enforce a consistent name clash >>>> prevention shows they're really not useful for decentralized >>>> extensibility. >>> >>> I can't tell from searching around on the svgweb demos how it uses >>> data-* attributes, but this really shouldn't be a problem in practice. >>> >>> If svgweb uses data-svgweb-* attributes, frex, then the chance of >>> clashing with another library is basically nil. Before starting any >>> new library one should probably google for a bit to make sure that >>> one's preferred name for the project isn't already being used. >>> >>> Before you can say that data-* is "really not useful for decentralized >>> extensibility", you'd have to show how, even with this basic friendly >>> practice of "self-namespacing", there were clashes in data-* attribute >>> naming in practice with half-significant libraries. Preferably, you'd >>> show how this actually caused some authors some grief, such as through >>> bug reports or forum posts complaining. >>> >> >> Actually, with all due respect, I don't need to show anything. I >> support the Microsoft initial effort, and believe that it is the >> approach we should working with, and assisting Tony in solving any >> problems with the approach. > > Sorry, I was using the generic "you", because it's clumsy to use "one" > everywhere in modern english. However, since you *did* try to assert > that data-* attributes are "really not useful for decentralized > extensibility" because they "[have] no ability to enforce a consistent > name clash prevention", then yes, the burden of proof *is* on you. > You're claiming that data-* suffers from a specific problem, so you > need to show that it actually does. > > I can assert (with evidence) that this method of self-policed > "namespacing" works reasonably well in practice in other realms (as I > stated, jQuery's plugin architecture uses this method), so I think > it's reasonable to believe that it should work equally well for > data-*. > > Or you can withdraw the assertion? > > ~TJ > Of course I won't withdraw my opinion. I don't believe that jQuery's use of the data-* attributes will provide a solution for data that needs to be aggregated outside of the page. It can't because that's a violation of the HTML5 specification rules for data-*. However... I'm sorry if you took offense at my suggestion for you to write up a proposal for data-* for decentralized extensibility. I just felt that we could be going around in circles indefinitely on this topic, exchanging opinions, disagreeing with each other, without a concrete proposal. A concrete proposal would then give us focal points on which to have further discussion. Like the beginning proposal that Tony provided. Shelley
Received on Monday, 19 October 2009 20:21:09 UTC