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RE: Locale/default encoding table

From: Phillips, Addison <addison@amazon.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:49:06 -0400
To: Andrew Cunningham <andrewc@vicnet.net.au>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
CC: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Geoffrey Sneddon <gsneddon@opera.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C7A5719F1E562149BA9171F58BEE2CA412982816D2@EX-IAD6-B.ant.amazon.com>
I'm still pretty sure that a table is not the right solution here.

The text the I18N WG proposed allows the current behavior, which is all that is necessary on a normative level. It uses examples instead of normative language. I'm completely mystified as to why Ian won't discuss that text directly.

My concern with providing a table is that it preserves, essentially forever, the behavior of browsers in the past. Character encoding distribution is and historically has been evolving. As recently as eight years ago, most browsers did not support proper display of UTF-8. Today, the most common encoding on the Web *is* UTF-8. The localization choices of current vendors--whether well- or ill-conceived--should not necessarily be *normative* guidance embedded in the HTML5 spec for future generations of browser vendors.

I think that having a table like this is useful information. But it should be "backwards pointing" and separate from HTML. I'd point out: the I18N WG hosts any number of pages documenting information such as this about browsers. I think we'd be very happy to add this to the collection. It could even be referenced from HTML5. Just don't make it part of the spec... because I know many developers who follow exactly what the spec says. And this is *not* appropriate in this case because the encoding environment is still evolving and because many locales have been disadvantaged in the past.

Addison

Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Lab126

Internationalization is not a feature.
It is an architecture.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-i18n-core-request@w3.org [mailto:public-i18n-core-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Cunningham
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:27 PM
> To: Ian Hickson
> Cc: Leif Halvard Silli; Geoffrey Sneddon; HTML WG; public-i18n-
> core@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Locale/default encoding table
> 
> 
> 
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> >
> >
> >> It may work for an individual user. But, it doesn't sound like
> someone
> >> offering a localized browser product for Ossetian users inside
> Russia
> >> would have much success that way.
> >>
> >
> > It basically depends on what Ossetian users have been using
> before having
> > a dedicated localised product.
> >
> >
> There seems to be two fundamentally different approaches to fall
> back,
> when basing fall back on UI of language
> 
> Selected a legacy encoding that fully supports the language, if the
> user
> agent does not support an appropriate encoding,
> 
> 1) use UTF-8 as the fall back.
> 
> 2) base selection of fall back legacy encoding on another language
> widely used by target user group, i.e. if language is a non-
> national
> language, select a national language and use that to choose the
> fall
> back legacy encoding.
> 
> Although the second approach in some cases can draw ua developers
> into
> political disputes.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> --
> Andrew Cunningham
> Senior Manager, Research and Development
> Vicnet
> State Library of Victoria
> 328 Swanston Street
> Melbourne VIC 3000
> 
> Ph: +61-3-8664-7430
> Fax: +61-3-9639-2175
> 
> Email: andrewc@vicnet.net.au
> Alt email: lang.support@gmail.com
> 
> http://home.vicnet.net.au/~andrewc/

> http://www.openroad.net.au

> http://www.vicnet.net.au

> http://www.slv.vic.gov.au


Received on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 03:49:42 GMT

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