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Re: Producing Atom

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:11:26 -0400
Message-ID: <4AC92B9E.2090400@intertwingly.net>
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
CC: public-html@w3.org
Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>> Furthermore, why couldn't additional specifications define 
>>>> additional information to be placed into the feed?
>>> They could, but that wouldn't change whether HTML5's algorithm alone 
>>> produced conforming Atom.
>> What does an HTML5 to Atom algorithm need to be in the HTML5 spec?
>>
>> If it were in a separate spec, it could normatively reference the vCard 
>> algorithm.
> 
> The point presumably is not just a political "HTML shouldn't reference 
> vCard"; my understanding is that there are technical reasons for which we 
> would want the basic HTML algorithms to not reference specific microdata 
> vocabularies. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any problem with just having 
> the algorithm in HTML5 and referencing he vocabulary, presumably. Putting 
> the algorithm in a separate spec presumably wouldn't change the technical 
> requirments here.
> 
> The HTML-to-Atom conversion IMHO should be in HTML5 for the same reason 
> the HTML-to-RDF and HTML-to-JSON conversions are in HTML5: they are a key 
> part of the language and address specific use cases that have been brought 
> forward. Being able to interpret HTML as a feed is a fundamental aspect of 
> the language, it's not an arbitrary secondary feature. (For example, it is 
> the reason behind the existence of <time pubdate> and its requirements.)

The original statement was "the HTML-to-Atom conversion algorithm can no 
longer output valid Atom".  Stated that way, it is a bug.

"whether HTML5's algorithm alone produced conforming Atom." is a 
related, but separate issue.

As currently documented, "a user agent must run the following algorithm 
to extract an Atom feed".  Documenting the minimum information that must 
be included in an Atom feed is goodness.  But specifying it as "THE" 
algorithm without any provisions for other information to be included is 
a problem.  You said "information added by particular vendors".  That's 
not what I intended to discuss.  I described another possibility: other 
relevant standards.  When you said that "It's also not really relevant", 
it became clear that you are on a different point that I am.

Just so it is clear: if HTML provides a conversion algorithm to Atom, 
and there is no possibility for that conversion algorithm to produce 
valid Atom, then that's the bug I want to discuss.  If it is possible 
for the conversion algorithm to produce non-conforming Atom, then I 
believe that an informative statement to that effect is in order, and 
ideally in that informative statement some guidance should be provided. 
  I have no problem with that statement discouraging vendor-specific 
proprietary extensions, and encouraging vendor neutral extensions to 
this specification where appropriate.

Would it be helpful if I opened a bug in bugzilla?

- Sam Ruby
Received on Sunday, 4 October 2009 23:12:11 UTC

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