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Re: Issues of @summary and use of data for "decisions"

From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:11:29 -0500
Message-ID: <643cc0270906231711p1ab9b28bs31f32972627923e9@mail.gmail.com>
To: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Cc: Steve Axthelm <steveax@pobox.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Shelley Powers<shelley.just@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Simon Pieters<simonp@opera.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:35:17 +0200, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> If this is the case, then it seems to me that the user agent does not
>>>> need
>>>> to be able to distinguish between caption and summary, and thus <caption>
>>>> can be used for both purposes.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Simon Pieters
>>>> Opera Software
>>>>
>>>
>>> Simon, are you being deliberately obtuse?
>>
>> No, not deliberately. :-)
>>
>>
>>> He is talking about what happens with screenreaders. The summary is
>>> targeted at screenreaders.
>>>
>>> What is the difference in behavior when someone like me, who is
>>> sighted, looks at the table using Opera? I see the caption, I don't
>>> see summary.
>>>
>>> Therefore one field cannot be used for both.
>>
>> It has been argued that summaries would likely be more useful on avarage if
>> they were visible by default. It has also been argued that some summaries
>> are useful also to visual users. These are two reasons why HTML5 proposes to
>> put the summary in <caption>, AIUI.
>>
>> --
>> Simon Pieters
>> Opera Software
>>
>
>
> Simon, you've also heard arguments here, from more than one person
> (John, Stephan, Laura) that summaries are more useful not being
> visible.

Sorry, Steve, not Stephan.

>
> Can we agree that these people's opinions are just as valuable as
> those who belief otherwise?
>
> But where there is a difference is that if one believes the
> information is useful for everyone, one can use caption. There is
> nothing in having both that precludes putting whatever information is
> deemed useful in caption. This is the most general use.
>
> But collapsing caption into summary is the more restrictive case,
> giving no real option for those who don't want the data to be
> available, except for some CSS trickery. And even that won't work
> today.
>
> So let's eliminate the working, general solution, in favor of the more
> restrictive, non-working solution?
>
> Shelley
>
> Shelley
>
Received on Wednesday, 24 June 2009 00:12:10 GMT

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