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Re: Issues of @summary and use of data for "decisions"

From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:58:56 -0500
Message-ID: <643cc0270906231358h6a54ea6fsb4a03ab814471cc0@mail.gmail.com>
To: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Cc: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Simon Pieters<simonp@opera.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:07:41 +0200, Laura Carlson
> <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
>>> I have heard arguments along the lines of "but captions and summaries are
>>> different" or "but captions should be short, summaries long", but I have
>>> not
>>> heard any argument as to why the user agent needs to be able to
>>> distinguish
>>> between the caption and the summary. (I might have missed it, please
>>> provide
>>> a pointer if so.)
>> Providing summary information visually by default would be extra
>> verbiage that most authors/designers would be reluctant to include
>> visually on a page because of redundancy.
> If an author is reluctant to include the summary visually, but still wants
> to provide a summary for non-visual users, then it can be hidden with CSS.

But the summary is part of caption -- what if the author wants both? A
caption for all people, and a table summary for the visually impaired?

>> (For more info see sighted
>> use case).
>> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE#head-50bd1f9b6606cd0d63fc7e525c1db226aac36d9b
>> Most of the debate around providing a summary mechanism has been about
>> misunderstanding its purpose, so trying to merge its purpose with
>> another element's purpose may be problematic leading to more
>> confusion.
> I would argue the opposite: if authors don't know when to use summary="" and
> when to use <caption>, removing the choice should result in less confusion.
> (cf. <acronym>.)

Oh, I see. Smooshing the two together will generate a miraculous epiphany.

Do you have data to back up your hypothesis?

>> Related ref:
>> short and long text alternatives.
>> * These are different concepts with different uses and both should be
>> provided as separate functions. Short descriptions are read
>> automatically when the item is encountered. Long descriptions are read
>> only on user request.
>> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5
> Are you saying that <caption> is read automatically, and summary="" is read
> only on user request?
> If it is important to have something short be read automatically, maybe the
> user agent could read the first sentence in the <caption> automatically, and
> the rest on user request?





> --
> Simon Pieters
> Opera Software
Received on Tuesday, 23 June 2009 20:59:37 UTC

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