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Re: summary="" in HTML5 ISSUE-32

From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:37:27 +0100
Message-ID: <49A96847.8060105@malform.no>
To: Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com>
CC: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>
Robert J Burns 2009-02-27 18.32:
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 1:50 AM, Simon Pieters wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:40:16 +0100, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>>>>> Unfortunately summary="" can't be made visible in Web browsers, 
>>>>> due to the wide mis-use of the attribute.
>>>>
>>>> As with @title, it can.
>>>
>>> If Web browsers are willing to expose it, then that would definitely
>>> change matters. Are they?
>>>
>>> Input from browser vendors here would be helpful.
>>
>> I've exposed summary='' in my user style sheet [...]
>> and concluded that, due to things like summary="For layout purposes", 
>> we cannot expose summary everywhere. We can't just expose it in 
>> standards mode, either, because there such pages using standards mode. 
>> We *could* expose it if we had a reliable algorithm to detect layout 
>> tables. Since such an algorithm would affect rendering in browsers, it 
>> would have to be given in the spec.
> 
> I think the proposal to expose summary is forgetting entirely about the 
> author and the user. The exposure of the summary attribute in the normal 
> flow of the document is not something that should be imposed by the UA. 
> Leif's proposal is geared at authoring practices as far as I understand 
> it. So if a browser had a special authoring mode, then summaries could 
> be exposed.

Indeeed. If we are not improving @summary from the point of view 
of authors, then we are not improving it.

> The 'summary' attribute value could also be exposed outside the flow of 
> the document: in the chrome. This could occur even in those cases where 
> improper labeling of layout tables occurred and other errant uses of 
> summary. By exposing summary in the chrome, UAs help address the 
> problems Leif sought to address, since authors can become aware of the 
> summary and easily recognize when the value is incorrect, missing, or 
> out of sync with the tables contents.

These are good proposals.
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Saturday, 28 February 2009 16:38:13 UTC

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