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Re: several messages

From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:55:01 +0100
Message-ID: <55687cf80908281155h485e6009yf87f30a34db0ef67@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>The point of role="" isn't to make well-written HTML accessible. That's
>already implicitly possible. The goal of role="" is to make it possible to
>make poorly-written HTML accessible to users of ATs. ARIA roles need to
>map to platform accessibility APIs. They don't need to map to markup
>languages that already exist. Doing the latter misses the point of ARIA.
>It would be like making CSS only capable of achieving styles that are
>possible with existing markup, instead of making it possible to achieve
>any appearance.

You can and do have well written html (5) that is made more accessible by
the use  of ARIA roles, because of many html5 features are unsupported. in
browsers or AT.

There are also aspects of ARIA such as live regions which HTML 5 does not
provide natively, that makes a major difference to the accessibility of
dynamic content for users of AT.

regards
stevef


2009/8/28 Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>

> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Bruce Lawson wrote:
> > On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:24:07 +0100, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps we've all be brainwashed by those evil Web Standards People, but
> > it doesn't seem right that you mark up the peripheral stuff with their
> > own elements, but the main content -the purpose of the page- merely gets
> > a measley meaningless generic <div>.
>
> The main content doesn't get a measely meaningless generic <div>, that's
> just a styling hook.
>
> No, the main content gets a remarkably important parser-supported <body>.
>
> It's the peripheral stuff that is unimportant enough that it has to be
> shunted off into other elements.
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Henri Sivonen wrote:
> >
> > Surely the reasonable thing to do here is to adjust either HTML 5 or
> > ARIA or both so that the following mapping holds:
> >
> > role=main == <main> [...]
>
> I think role=main is as pointless as <main> for most documents. However,
> in certain cases, where the HTML markup is basically a mess of <div>s
> because the HTML5 elements aren't being used, I could see it being
> necessary. It's like role=button; you wouldn't ever need it in normal
> company, and you certainly wouldn't use it to mark up individual parts of
> an <input type=number> since you can't get to the spin buttons in that
> code, but nonetheless, it is there in case you ever want to make your own
> <div>itis spinbutton.
>
> The point of role="" isn't to make well-written HTML accessible. That's
> already implicitly possible. The goal of role="" is to make it possible to
> make poorly-written HTML accessible to users of ATs. ARIA roles need to
> map to platform accessibility APIs. They don't need to map to markup
> languages that already exist. Doing the latter misses the point of ARIA.
> It would be like making CSS only capable of achieving styles that are
> possible with existing markup, instead of making it possible to achieve
> any appearance.
>
> --
> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
>



-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Friday, 28 August 2009 18:55:45 UTC

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