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Re: feedback requested on WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5 document

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:12:56 -0700
Cc: Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Message-id: <60F7382B-8E20-4E51-818E-00C3AB871B70@apple.com>
To: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>

On Aug 16, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:

> Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>
>> I don't see how trying to better understand the document  
>> constitutes an unreasonable burden of proof.
>
> No, but asking for people to justify[1] changes to a spec that has  
> not yet been determined to represent consensus does.

In a disagreement, everyone should be asked to justify their position.  
As I pointed out, the current spec text was given detailed  
justification[1] based on a great deal of often conflicting feedback.  
I don't see what consensus has to do with anything.The lack of  
declared consensus does not make it any less appropriate to expect  
people to explain their positions.

The way past superficial disagreement is to understand what people  
actually want and why.

Let me give you a concrete example. The Consensus Resolutions document  
says alt should always be included, and doesn't allow the alternatives  
of @title and single-image section heading that the HTML5 spec allows  
in a few cases. On the other hand, it does allow <figure><legend> and  
aria-labeledby as alternatives. Is the Consensus Resolutions document  
recommending that the other HTML5 alternatives should be removed? Or  
is its list of techniques not meant to be exhaustive, and therefore  
these other alternatives are ok? I don't think I can tell without  
asking. Can you?

I hope you can see why this kind of understanding is important to  
building conensus.

>
>> Nor do I see how it will help us achieve consensus for you to  
>> interfere with the process of mutual understanding.
>
> I don't see how asking people to provide the feedback requested is  
> "interfering".  And at this time, I would like to thank Henri for  
> actually doing so[2].

This document makes suggestions for changes to the HTML5 draft. Rather  
than suggesting changes to the suggestions for changes, I'd like to  
determine if we can actually apply the changes to the draft. This is  
not exactly what was requested, but I believe it is useful and would  
in fact save us time.

Regards,
Maciej

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0723.html
Received on Monday, 17 August 2009 00:13:41 UTC

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