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Re: summary attribute compromise proposal

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:31:09 -0700
Cc: 'HTML WG' <public-html@w3.org>, po@trace.wisc.edu, lorettaguarino@google.com
Message-id: <50FAA03E-6D32-41B8-B386-160973A0BA22@apple.com>
To: John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>

On Aug 4, 2009, at 12:02 PM, John Foliot wrote:

>
>>
>> 2) HTML5 will not make any flat direct statements that summary=""
>> shouldn't or can't be used. Instead, it will say that authors SHOULD
>
> <del>use</del> <ins>consider using</ins> (??)

"consider using" or "strongly consider using" would be ok by me.


> (as I re-read my response before hitting submit, I would like to  
> suggest
> that this also be the model/pattern for other difficult  
> 'contradictions':
> @longdesc, headers/id, Integration of WAI-ARIA into HTML5, etc.  I  
> do not
> hinge my support of this proposal on that suggestion, but ask that  
> readers
> consider it fully)

For now, I suggest we take things one issue at a time. We may be able  
to find compromise resolutions to other issues, perhaps using a  
similar model or perhaps a different one. Let's take it case by case.  
(For the record, I should state that headers is fully conforming and  
in no way deprecated in HTML5, so I see that particular issue as fully  
resolved already).


>
>> 3) HTML5 will continue to include a mandatory warning for summary="".
>> The purpose is not to completely prevent authors from using
>> summary="", but rather to bring alternatives to their attention, as
>> described above.
>
> Retaining 'obsolete but conformant' status?  Since I interpret this  
> as a
> functional equivalent to deprecated (mid-way on a continuum) I neither
> agree or disagree... it is not a show stopper for me (personally).

I personally think a category label like "obsolete but conformant" or  
"deprecated" is not really important to the core issues here. So I  
don't care and I'm happy to leave categories like this to editorial  
discretion. If you think it's not very important either, then let's  
leave it to editor's discretion. If anyone thinks the label is a very  
important issue, but otherwise buys into this proposal, then we can  
negotiate.

>
>> to better reflect HTML5
>> features for describing tables. I can draft a message to communicate
>> this, but I'd like to request:
>>     (a) John Foliot as a co-signer (assuming he agrees with the
>> language), since he said he'd support an effort to update WCAG2, and
>> I'd like to make clear that this is a coordination effort, not an
>> attempt to pick a fight.
>
> I have offered this before, and continue to do so today.  I place a  
> huge
> value on the word 'cooperation'.

OK, let's pursue this offline and come up with some language to  
present to the WG. I'll ping you later today or tomorrow, for now I  
want to see if we can get the WG on board with this proposal.

>
>> I'd particularly like to hear from John Foliot and Ian Hickson  
>> whether
>> this would be a satisfactory outcome.
>
> To be formal, I support this initiative fully.  Thank you Maciej.

Thanks, John. I'm glad that you are open to a compromise approach.


Regards,
Maciej
Received on Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:31:56 UTC

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