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Re: <q>

From: Sam Kuper <sam.kuper@uclmail.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:59:24 +0000
Message-ID: <4126b3450810280659m76599cfcjd075575d021af433@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Justin James" <j_james@mindspring.com>
Cc: "Ivan Enderlin" <w3c@hoa-project.net>, "Olivier GENDRIN" <olivier.gendrin@gmail.com>, "Ben Boyle" <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>, "Chris Wilson" <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>, "HTML WG" <public-html@w3.org>
2008/10/28 Justin James <j_james@mindspring.com>

> I like <q> as a tag to indicate that something is a
> quote, kind of like "blockquote is to div as q is to span". I don't like it
> as trying to plaster on automagical punctuation marks.

Then either don't use <q> in your own markup, or else specify a style rule
to prevent <q> from making presentational changes that include the insertion
of punctuation.

Essentially, the proposals I've made are like "blockquote is to div as q is
to span". It is only because standard typographical style in English and
many other widely used languages is not to append/prepend punctuation to
block quotes that I (and presumably others) have not suggested that
<blockquote> should do so by default. However, because standard
typographical style in many languages is to append/prepend quotation marks
to inline quotations, I think the <quotation> element should do so.

Similarly, I do not propose that line break-like whitespace should appear at
the beginning and end of <span> elements, though I am happy for it to appear
at the beginning and end of <div> elements.

> In addition, what about UAs that
> use a default stylesheet different from what the author expects?

If the default styling for <q> elements is given in the spec in the manner I
previously proposed, then this will not occur. That is, assuming the author
is familiar with the spec, and the UA follows spec, the UA will not use a
default stylesheet that differs from what the author expects.

> Or do not
> use CSS at all?

Well, since such UAs will inevitably impose their own styling upon content,
it will be up to their maintainers to handle <q> in a way they feel is
appropriate. For instance, just as such UAs may *always* use a set default
paragraph spacing, they may choose to *always* enclose <q> elements with a
pair of double quote marks.

> What if the quote contains a quote? Should the inside quote
> also use <q>?


> What if the inner contents come from elsewhere, like an
> authoring tool or are pulled from XML and inserted via JavaScript?

I can't see how this is a problem, as long as the inner contents are
decently marked up (which they should be anyway).

> No, I
> think that the idea of <q> rendering quotes, regardless of the rules it
> uses, is a very bad idea.

I think I've addressed all of your stated objections to <q>. Please
reconsider whether <q> is really such a bad idea after all.


Received on Tuesday, 28 October 2008 14:00:08 UTC

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