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Re: <q>

From: Ivan Enderlin <w3c@hoa-project.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:14:56 +0100
Message-ID: <49071050.4080603@hoa-project.net>
To: Justin James <j_james@mindspring.com>
Cc: 'Olivier GENDRIN' <olivier.gendrin@gmail.com>, 'Ben Boyle' <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>, 'Sam Kuper' <sam.kuper@uclmail.net>, 'Chris Wilson' <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>, 'HTML WG' <public-html@w3.org>

Justin James a écrit :
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-html-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-request@w3.org] On
>> Behalf Of Olivier GENDRIN
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:33 AM
>> To: Ben Boyle
>> Cc: Sam Kuper; Chris Wilson; HTML WG
>> Subject: Re:<q>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:17 AM, Ben Boyle<benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>      
>>> Got a question ...
>>>
>>> <p lang="en"><q lang="fr">Bonjour</q>  he said.</p>
>>>
>>> English or French quotation marks?
>>>        
>> Interesting use case. As far as the sentence is intended to be read by
>> English speaking people, I think that they await for English
>> typography marks, so English quotation marks would make sense. But If
>> we had more nested quotations (French quoted into French quoted into
>> English), the nested quotation would need French ones (in fact, it
>> would need the quotation marks used into the outer quoted sentence).
>>
>> I think that quotation marks are not part of the quotation, but
>> outside of it (:before and :after), so the @lang of the quotation mark
>> is the @lang of the surrounding tag.
>>      
>
> The more that questions like this come up, the more that it becomes clear to
> me that<q>  is a bad idea. It will never meet the author's needs, or do what
> they expect it to do, more than "most of the time", which is always a clear
> sign that something is not right.
I don't understand your feeling Justin. Oliver got a good argument, i.e. 
if we specify a lang for a <q> tag, it concerns the <q> content and not 
the quotation style, which belongs to the typography of the main 
document language. There is no problem with the @lang attribut I think.
Actually, I wonder to understand what is the problem with quotation. The 
<q> tag indicates a quotation, like <p> tag indicates a paragraph. The 
style quotation, like the style paragraph, are exported into a CSS. And 
of course, UA got a default render, according to the document language. 
Maybe, this is the problem because a default render for a paragraph is 
trivial, but a default render for a quotation is a bit hard. For example :
<p lang="fr"><q>Et il me dit&nbsp;: <q>Salut !</q></q> annonça-t-il</p>
The first quotes pair is « and », and the second (inside quotes) is “ 
and ”, like English quotes … If a UA should know all theses rules, this 
is the problematic.

Finally, I think that <q> tag is usefull for the semantic and does not 
evoke special problem. The quote style is difficult but not impossible, 
and UA given default render through CSS for quotes style, there is no 
problem no ?

Regards.

-- 
Ivan Enderlin
Developper of Hoa Framework
http://hoa-project.net/
Received on Tuesday, 28 October 2008 13:15:41 GMT

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