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Re: HTML Action Item 54 - ...draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements.

From: David Poehlman <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:26:40 -0400
Message-ID: <CC4BEF97EA6F44DFAB5600BA2034F683@HANDS>
To: "Katie Haritos-Shea" <ryladog@earthlink.net>, "Gez Lemon" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>, "Andrew Sidwell" <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>
Cc: "Robert J Burns" <rob@robburns.com>, "Steven Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, <public-html@w3.org>, "W3C WAI-XTECH" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, <wai-liaison@w3.org>

well,

Asside from all my images being of the cealing <g>, I would go with number 1 
with the addition that if you can save the image with an identifying name, 
you can describe it.  Sadly though, this all sort of feels like description 
to me and not replacement.  See Robert's messages on this in which he 
describes it well.

There are assumptions in some of the senarios that we can capture and read 
metadata from realtime snaps and while I don't know all of the technology 
available, I am not certain that this is an accurate assessment of today's 
verbal technology.

I have not seen that lt is not for the blind.  I have seen though that alt 
is not only for the blind.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Haritos-Shea" <ryladog@earthlink.net>
To: "Gez Lemon" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>; "Andrew Sidwell" 
<w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>
Cc: "Robert J Burns" <rob@robburns.com>; "Steven Faulkner" 
<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>; <public-html@w3.org>; "W3C WAI-XTECH" 
<wai-xtech@w3.org>; <wai-liaison@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: HTML Action Item 54 - ...draft text for HTML 5 spec to require 
producers/authors to include @alt on img elements.



Folks,

I am also going to give a few scenarios that I, a sighted person, can 
imagine for a blind photographer could use to provide alt text.

I have been immersed with technology standards, accessibility and innovation 
for so long and am so used to people finding creative and new ideas for 
solutions with existing technology as well as emerging technologies - that I 
just was finding myself shocked and insulted for my friends with 
disabilities at the suggestion that HTML5 (conformance) might not be for 
*blind people*.

I realized that I need to view this question with (hopefully) the intent 
with which was posed.


QUESTION asked:
How does a blind photographer mark up a photo, which is known to be critical 
content, but which *she* herself cannot describe?


ANSWER:
*She* is Jane. She is blind photohrapher. Jane is spending the day with her 
5 year old granddaughter, Trina, in Washington DC. Jane lives in Austin, 
Texas.

Jane wishes to share the photos of her day she spent with Trina with her 
sighted hushand, Tom, back in Austin (or her family, or her friend network).


Scenario 1:
Jane uses the webcam on her laptop, with image capture software, to capture 
a picture of Trina and herself in the playroom. Jane and Trina stand in 
front of the screen. Jane posts the picture to her webspace using her HTML 5 
compliant authoring tool. Jane adds alt text when prompted.
<img src="Trina-Jane_2009-4-1.jpg" alt="Trina and Jane in Trina's playroom, 
April Fools Day 2009">


Scenario 2:
Jane uses a camera with the ability to attach semantic information (text or 
voice file) to images, as a reminder for later use and recall. Jane uses 
that information when she posts the photos.
<img src="Trina-Jane_2009-4-1.jpg" alt="Trina and Jane in Trina's playroom, 
April Fools Day 2009">


Scenario 3:
Jane uses a camera function of her PDA that uses an image file format (SVG) 
that allows her to attach semantic information to the image. Jane draws on 
that information when she posts her photos.
<img src="Trina-Jane_2009-4-1.svg" alt="Trina and Jane in Trina's playroom, 
April Fools Day 2009">


Scenario 4:
Jane uses the webcam on her laptop, with image capture software, to capture 
a picture of Trina and herself in the playroom. Jane and Trina stand in 
front of the screen. Jane posts the picture to her webspace. Jane asks Trina 
to explain what is in the photos, and types the text into the online HTML 5 
compliant authoring environment when prompted for alt text for image 
'Trina-Jane_2009-4-1.jpg'.
<img src="Trina-Jane_2009-4-1.jpg" alt="Auntie Jane and Trina and in 
playroom, April Fools Day 2009">


Katie Haritos-Shea





-----Original Message-----
>From: Gez Lemon <gez.lemon@gmail.com>
>Sent: May 13, 2008 1:52 PM
>To: Andrew Sidwell <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>
>Cc: Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com>, Steven Faulkner 
><faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, W3C 
>WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>, wai-liaison@w3.org
>Subject: Re: HTML Action Item 54 - ...draft text for HTML 5 spec to require 
>producers/authors to include @alt on img elements.
>
>
>Hi Andrew,
>
>On 13/05/2008, Andrew Sidwell <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk> wrote:
>> > > I would be happy if someone (or several someones) in favour of making
>> alt mandatory in all cases would answer very simply: How does a blind
>> photographer mark up a photo, which is known to be critical content, but
>> which she herself cannot describe?
>
>A blind person would specify the alt text they felt was appropriate
>for the image in accordance with WCAG guidelines.
>
>>  I would suggest that
>>   <!DOCTYPE html>
>>   <title>
>>
>>   <header>
>>     <h1>Photo Gallery</h1>
>>     <h2>Photo taken on 13th May 2008</h3>
>>   </header>
>>
>>   <img src="photo">
>>   <p><a href="prev">Previous photo</a>, <a href="next">Next photo</a>
>>
>>  would not be a bad way of answering the question.
>
>Personally, I think it's a terrible way of answering the question. It
>shows a total indifference to accessibility borne out of assumptions
>you've made about how a blind person uses a computer.
>
>>  How would you propose to do it differently?
>
>In accordance with WCAG. See how T.V. Raman marks up the three images
>on one of his web pages [1]. There will also be plenty of poor
>examples marked up by people who are blind, just as there are by
>sighted people, but being blind doesn't make someone incapable of
>providing alt text in accordance with WCAG.
>
>[1] http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/raman/
>
>
>Gez
>
>-- 
>_____________________________
>Supplement your vitamins
>http://juicystudio.com
>


* katie *

Katie Haritos-Shea
Section 508 Technical Policy Analyst

703-371-5545

People may forget exactly what it was that you said or did,
but they will never forget how you made them feel.......
Received on Wednesday, 14 May 2008 13:27:30 GMT

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