Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1

Greetings Michael, your proposal that we start looking for some mutually 
acceptable wording for the relationship between HTML5 and XHTML sounds 
perfectly reasonable. I will put the subject on the agenda for our WG 
telecon.

Regards, Roland




"Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org> 
20/06/2008 12:14

To
Roland Merrick/UK/IBM@IBMGB
cc
public-html@w3.org, public-xhtml2@w3.org, public-xhtml2-request@w3.org
Subject
Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1






Hi Roland,

> @2008-06-19 10:31 +0100:
> HTML Working Group members
> You wrote [1] to the XHTML2 Working Group asking for a response 
regarding 
> specific changes made to parts of the HTML5 Editor's Draft [2].
> 
> We discussed your request at our Face to Face meeting and concluded: 
"The 
> [XHTML2] WG recognises that we are chartered to maintain and develop the 

> XHTML series, and the HTML5 specification should therefore not contain 
> text that makes it appear differently". 
> 
> We request that the text be removed.
> 
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0045.html
> [2] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/

Thanks for the response. Now that we've initiated some public
discussion of this, I'd hope that we don't cut it short
prematurely and can consider continuing that public discussion
without venturing into formalities -- unless and until our
respective groups decide those are really necessary.

In that spirit, I'd like to ask if you could consider the
following request:

For a number of reasons, it seems like it would be beneficial to
have some text in the HTML5 draft that describes the relationship
of HTML5 to XHTML 1.x. I understand that the current text in the
spec which attempts to do that is not acceptable to the XHTML2
Working Group, so I'd like to ask if there is anything the XHTML2
Working Group can suggest as an alternative for the draft to say
about the relationship between HTML5 and XHTML 1.x.

The rest of this message is an attempt to provide background on
the above inquiry.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

First, I want to note for the record that the HTML5 draft has had
-- since the time[1] when the HTML Working Group first agreed[2]
to adopt it as "our specification text for review" -- a section[3]
that attempts to describe the relationship of HTML5 to XHTML 1.x.

[1] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/spec/Overview.html?rev=1.1
[2] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/htmlbg/results
[3] 
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/spec/Overview.html?rev=1.1#relationship


Relatively recently, it was communicated to me privately that some
members of the XHTML2 Working Group had concerns about the wording
of that particular section. So, editorial refinements were made to
the text in the current HTML5 Editor's Draft, in an attempt to
describe the relationship more precisely -- with the result being
the text that can be found here:

  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#relationship0

Given that the HTML5 draft specification is a W3C working draft
published in a space shared with the XHTML 1.x specifications, it
seems that the community is likely to expect the HTML5 draft to
provide a description of its relationship to the XHTML 1.x
specifications. That's all that the "Relationship to XHTML 1.x"
section in the current HTML5 Editor's Draft is attempting to do.

That section is specifically not attempting to give any appearance
that the XHTML2 Working Group is not chartered to maintain and
develop the XHTML series, or, specifically updates to the XHTML
1.x specifications. (Until I saw mention of XHTML 1.2 in the
minutes[4] for the XHTML2 Working Group virtual face-to-face
meeting, I at least was not at all aware of plans for the group to
develop XHTML 1.2.)

[4] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes#item01

Finally, I want to note that the HTML5 specification is
constrained by some particular requirements in the charter[5] for
the HTML Working Group.

[5] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter.html

Specifically, the HTML5 draft is constrained by the following
parts of the HTML Working Group charter:

The mission statement in the charter reads in full:

  The mission of the HTML Working Group, part of the HTML
  Activity, is to continue the evolution of HTML (including
  classic HTML and XML syntaxes).

And the Scope section of the charter says:

  This group will maintain and produce incremental revisions to
  the HTML specification. Both XML and 'classic HTML' syntaxes
  will be produced."

In addition, the Deliverables section of the charter says that the
following is among the requirements for the spec the group is
chartered do deliver:

  An extensible, serialized form of such a language, using XML.

So the HTML5 draft, in its current form, does aim to meet those
requirements in the charter -- and the "Relationship to XHTML 1.x"
section in the HTML5 editor's draft is essentially an attempt to
describe how that aspect of HTML5 relates to XHTML 1.x

That's it. I hope that above provides some insight on the
background for my inquiry about whether you think the XHTML2
Working Group could consider suggesting alternative language for
the HTML5 draft to use for describing the relationship between
HTML5 and XHTML 1.x.

Regards,

  --Mike

-- 
Michael(tm) Smith
http://people.w3.org/mike/
http://sideshowbarker.net/







Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU