- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:40:40 +0000 (UTC)
- To: Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>
- Cc: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Joshue O Connor wrote: > > I am wondering if you could expand a little on your response. > > > I also think longdesc="" and summary="" have thought us that placing > > attributes for specific disabilities into the language itself will > > result in overwhelming abuse to the point where the target audience of > > those features actually have to turn them off. > > I guess you are referring to using @summary for black hat SEO, but even > so, is this a solid enough reason to drop it from the HTML 5 spec? The summary="" attribute hasn't been studied as carefully as longdesc="", so it's probably easiest to look at the longdesc="" data (though eventually we will of course have to look at summary="" specifically as well). For longdesc="", it's pretty clear that the attribute is used so rarely, and when used, is so overwhelmingly often used in a way that would annoy users, that I simply cannot see a scenario on the open Web where a user would actually benefit from a user agent impementing the longdesc="" attribute. I would imagine that summary="" (and other attributes, as in the context of my original missive) would be subject to similar abuse. Obviously, for existing attributes, we would have to continue doing research to determine whether the attribute is used usefully enough to be usable; for new attributes, we have to use our design judgement based on research and experience with existing features. Mark Pilgrim summarised the longdesc="" research in his controversial article on the WHATWG blog: http://blog.whatwg.org/the-longdesc-lottery > FWIW @summary is a very, very practical and useful attribute for screen > reader users Well, as noted above, I haven't yet done much research on summary="", it's waiting with all the other table issues. However, with all due respect, one of the most convincing pieces of research I have seen examining summary="" -- and most excellent research it was -- was your own usability study video, which showed a screen reader user dismiss summary="" out of hand as being useless and annoying (paraphrasing from memory). Indeed, in that video, it was only after prompting that the subject acknowledged that the attribute could theoretically have some use. When the target audience dismisses the feature, and the authors dismiss the feature, and the only people left saying that the feature is useful are self-appointed advocates for the feature (no offense intended, I'm a self-appointed editor!), it is usually worth reconsidering whether anyone is really benefitting from the feature. (With summary="", though, I haven't yet studied enough data to really be able to say with certainty what the conclusion should be.) > Surely even new and hitherto undreamed of attributes and elements are > potentially as susceptible to misuse - but is this a solid reason for > not developing them? We must design a language that is more likely to be used correctly than wrongly, yes. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Tuesday, 5 February 2008 19:40:54 UTC