W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > December 2007

Re: ISSUE-24 (ogg-delete): Request to delete "should support Ogg" clause before publishing FPWD [HTML 5 spec]

From: Marghanita da Cruz <marghanita@ramin.com.au>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:29:59 +1100
Message-ID: <47533FF7.2060402@ramin.com.au>
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
CC: Olivier GENDRIN <olivier.gendrin@gmail.com>, HTML Issue Tracking WG <public-html@w3.org>

Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
> 
> On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Olivier GENDRIN wrote:
> 
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2007 3:25 AM, HTML Issue Tracking Issue Tracker
>> <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ISSUE-24 (ogg-delete): Request to delete "should support Ogg" clause 
>>> before publishing FPWD [HTML 5 spec]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/
>>>
>>> Raised by: Michael(tm) Smith
>>> On product: HTML 5 spec
>>>
>>> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:30 +0200
>>> From: mikko.honkala@nokia.com
>>> To: connolly@w3.org, public-html@w3.org
>>> Subject: RE: Request for clarification on HTML 5 publication status  
>>> (ISSUE-19)
>>>
>>> we see benefit to publish a first WD of the HTML5 spec. To avoid any
>>> patent issues we request deletion of the following clause from the spec
>>> before it is published. We support publication under the condition this
>>> change is made.
>>>
>>>> "User agents should support Ogg Theora video and Ogg Vorbis audio, as
>>>> well as the Ogg container format." in 3.14.7.1.
>>
>> Couldn't we replace that sentence by a more general one, speaking
>> about 'at least one patent-free format' ?
> 
> I think the general desire for a suitable codec would better be recorded 
> in the spec as an open issue than a SHOULD-level conformance requirement.

There are a couple of issues here that need to be disentangled - one is the
format the second is the implementation (software or even hardware).

From: <http://vorbis.com/faq/#flic>
"What licensing applies to the Ogg Vorbis format?
The Ogg Vorbis specification is in the public domain."
and later....
"What licensing applies to the included Ogg Vorbis software?
Most (but not all) of our utility software is released under the terms of the
GNU GPL. The libraries and SDKs are released under our BSD-like license"

From: <http://www.theora.org/faq/#14>
"Q. What is the license for Theora?
Theora (and all associated technologies released by the Xiph.org Foundation) is
released to the public via a BSD-style license. It is completely free for
commercial or noncommercial use. That means that commercial developers may
independently write Theora software which is compatible with the specification
for no charge and without restrictions of any kind. "

To me, it seems the issue is how these licenses [and other third party/non w3c] 
fit with the
current and HTML5 license framework.

Marghanita
> 
> What we'd like is for known patents to be licensed royalty-free for use 
> with the format or expired; that's as good as having no patents at all.
> 
> Also, it's pretty hard to prove something is patent-free, other than 
> waiting 20 years after it became public knowledge, at which point any 
> possible patents must have expired. Part of the concern with Ogg Theora 
> is that there's possible doubt that the known patents (which are 
> licensed royalty-free) are the only relevant ones.
> 
> Nokia's position paper for the upcoming Video on the Web W3C Workshop 
> discusses what kind of video codecs can have this kind of confidence: 
> <http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf>. Specifically, 
> they mention a possible requirement that "There is only a manageable 
> risk in implementing the specification.  In practice, we prefer 
> specifications that have been developed in a collaborative manner under 
> an IPR policy with disclsore requirements.  Examples include 
> specifications developed by the ITU-T, ISO/IEC, or the IETF." With 
> codecs developed through an open standards process with IPR disclosure, 
> it's possible to have greater confidence that the key applicable patents 
> are known.
> 
> Regards,
> Maciej
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Marghanita da Cruz
http://www.ramin.com.au
Phone: (+61)0414 869202
Received on Sunday, 2 December 2007 23:29:10 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:16:11 GMT