W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-xml@w3.org > October 2011

Re: HTML/XML TF report introductory text

From: Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:28:03 -0400
Message-ID: <4EA2C4E3.4090402@arcanedomain.com>
To: rleif@rleif.com
CC: 'Edward O'Connor' <eoconnor@apple.com>, public-html-xml@w3.org
Robert,

Perhaps this posting [1] on the What WG blog may be helpful. Of course, as 
Liam says, for authoritative information you should read the draft 
specifications, and I should also warn that this is not an area that I 
follow month-by-month, so it's possible the specs have changed since the 
blog entry was written. Note also that there is considerable debate in the 
comments following the blog posting, and you may find the debate itself 
informative. Still, I would expect [1] would do a good job, at least 
informally, of getting you in the ballpark on the questions you're raising. 
Note that, in any case, the specifications do tell you what your options 
are for the first few lines of an XHTML5 file.

Noah

[1] http://blog.whatwg.org/xhtml5-in-a-nutshell

On 10/22/2011 1:07 AM, Robert Leif wrote:
> Edward,
>
> I believe that technically you are correct.
>
> However,
>
> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_doctype.asp
>
> HTML <!DOCTYPE> Declaration
>
> Definition and Usage
>
> The doctype declaration should be the very first thing in an HTML document,
> before the <html> tag.
>
> The doctype declaration is not an HTML tag; it is an instruction to the web
> browser about what version of the markup language the page is written in.
>
> The doctype declaration refers to a Document Type Definition (DTD). The DTD
> specifies the rules for the markup language, so that the browsers render
> the content correctly.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/
>
> I believe that the following is the evidence that proves your statement:
>
> With HTML5 this is no longer the case and the DOCTYPE is only needed to
> enable standards mode for documents written using the HTML syntax. Browsers
> already do this for <!DOCTYPE html>.
>
> In short, we need to state that the only purpose of the DOCTYPE declaration
> is to communicate to the browser the format of the document. This leads to
> the question, what should one put in the first line for an XHTML5 page? The
> problem is that it is probably not economically feasible under the present
> circumstances to create a full schema that describes html5 and thus
> provides xhtml5, which would then use <?xml version="1.0"
> encoding="UTF-8"?> or similar statement. Therefore, essentially some sort
> of add-on is needed to extend html5 to provide the functionality of xhtml5.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-html-xml-request@w3.org
> [mailto:public-html-xml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Edward O'Connor
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 3:07 PM
> To: public-html-xml@w3.org
> Subject: Re: HTML/XML TF report introductory text
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> You wrote:
>
>  >>> I used the DTD because that is what has been specified for HTML5 and
>
>  >>> XHTML5.
>
> David replied:
>
>  > Specified by whom? the HTML5 spec (unlike previous versions) does not
>
>  > specify any DTD.
>
> and you replied:
>
>  > XMLSpy does. When one creates a new HTML5 document, it produces
>
>  > <!DOCTYPE html>
>
> You seem to be confusing doctypes and DTDs. HTML5 has a doctype, but does
> not have a DTD.
>
> Ted
>
Received on Saturday, 22 October 2011 13:28:39 GMT

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