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HTML/XML Task Force Minutes 28 Jun 2011

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:42:18 -0400
To: public-html-xml@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2hb7af25x.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes

[1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

                              HTML/XML Task Force

28 Jun 2011

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           John, Norm, Mike, Anne, Robert Leif, Henri

   Regrets
           Noah

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting: 12 July 2011 (in two weeks)
         4. [8]Review of comments
         5. [9]Comment 002 from David Carlisle
         6. [10]Comment 003 from Julian Reschke
         7. [11]Comment 004 from Noah Mendelsohn
         8. [12]Comment 005 from Robin Berjon
         9. [13]Comment 006 from Henri Sivonen
        10. [14]Comment 007 from Kurt Cagle
        11. [15]Comment 008 from Noah Mendelsohn
        12. [16]Any other business?

     * [17]Summary of Action Items

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Norm apologizes for messing up GMT in the agenda. And for the long delay
   since our last meeting

  Accept this agenda?

   -> [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/03/08-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: 12 July 2011 (in two weeks)

   Accepted.

  Review of comments

   -> [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/

   Norm: I closed comment 001 as it wasn't really a comment.

  Comment 002 from David Carlisle

   Norm: I think these are all editorial and am happy to accept them. Any
   disagreement?

   None heard:

  Comment 003 from Julian Reschke

   Norm: I'm of two minds on this one. I think of XML as having a DTD
   language and a set of vocabularies.

   Henri: I think Julian's point is well taken, I suggest we call it a
   framework.

   Norm: I'm happy to take that as editorial direction and make a stab at it.
   ... Any objections?

   None heard.

  Comment 004 from Noah Mendelsohn

   Norm: Isn't really acomment...

  Comment 005 from Robin Berjon

   -> [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/#C005

   Norm: The first two are editorial.
   ... Robin suggests we just say "polyglot has limited applicability"

   Henri: I think Robin's comments all make sense.
   ... I'd say that the the parser doesn't actually guarantee that the output
   is valid, only that it's well defined.

   John: Tagsoup is the same way.

   Norm: Ok, if there's general agreement about Robin's comments, I'll
   attempt to address them all.
   ... Any objections?

   None heard.

  Comment 006 from Henri Sivonen

   Henri: The first comment is about the fact that the draft is misleading.
   It doesn't "just work". It's way overoptimistic. There are issues with,
   for example, empty tags.

   Norm: Perhaps I overstated the case. I'll try to soften that statement. Or
   at least make it more accurate.

   Henri: I suggest just removing the paragraph.

   Norm; That looks reasonable to me.

   Henri: The substance of my next comment matches the substance of one of
   Robin's.

   Norm: Ok, I'll try to fix that as well.

   Henri: My next comment is about interfacing subsystems. Using the HTML
   parser when you have XHTML5 in a larger document is just weird. I would
   assume that you wouldn't clip anything out and hand it to an HTML5 parser.
   You'd pass the parsed object model around, not the text.
   ... I don't think the HTML5 parser needs to be involved in any way.
   ... And then there's something about MIME and such and I think that steps
   outside the scope of using an XML document as a container.
   ... It seems out-of-place.

   Norm: That was explicitly called out as one of the possible solutions when
   we were considering the use case.

   Henri: What the document says about the script tag is factually incorrect.
   ... what you get in the DOM is not escaped in any way.

   Norm: Yes, thats's a totally misleading statement. I'll fix that.
   ... Any other questions or comments about Henri's comments?

   None heard.

  Comment 007 from Kurt Cagle

   Norm: I think this is about the same paragraph Robin and Henri commented
   on.
   ... Does anyone have any suggestions for the illustration Kurt suggests?

   None heard.

   Henri: I think there's a slippery slope towards rewriting the polyglot
   guide if we go that direction.
   ... I think we can provide some examples without trying to be exhaustive.

   Bob expresses a desire for some examples.

   Yeah, sorry Yves, I borked the agenda because of DST

  Comment 008 from Noah Mendelsohn

   Norm: I think Noah and John have both observed that making XML "more
   forgiving of errors" is a harder problem than the draft suggests.
   ... I'll try to improve that.

  Any other business?

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [22]scribe.perl version 1.136 ([23]CVS
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References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-html-xml-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item04
   8. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item05
   9. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item06
  10. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item07
  11. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item08
  12. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item09
  13. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item10
  14. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item11
  15. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item12
  16. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#item13
  17. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-minutes#ActionSummary
  18. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-agenda
  19. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/03/08-minutes
  20. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/
  21. http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/#C005
  22. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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