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{minutes} HTML WG telcon 2008-07-24

From: Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:04:08 +0900
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080731130408.GM2643@toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp>

The following are minutes of the W3C HTML Working Group telcon on
2008-07-24.

  http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html

   Present
          Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, +1.425.646.aaaa, smedero,
          laura, Cynthia_Shelly, ed_work, [Microsoft]

   Chair
          MikeSmith

   Scribe
          ChrisWilson

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Convene meeting, review agenda
         2. [6]tracker status definitions
         3. [7]"URL" definition in HTML5 spec
         4. [8]SVG in HTML
         5. [9]ISSUE-35 aria-processing
         6. [10]Next meeting
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

Convene meeting, review agenda

   cw: did want to make sure people looked at tracker definitions:

   <smedero> [12]http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

     [12] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

tracker status definitions

   <Julian> I was thinking about shortly talking about other specs
   starting to reference HTML5's "URL" definition (AC)

   <MikeSmith> Julian: OK

   <DanC> it still says "PENDINGREVIEW = The Editor has reviewed
   arguments and edited spec to taste" but the editor doesn't have
   write access to tracker

   <DanC> last edited 2008-07-23 21:34:40

   <sampablokuper> My apologies to the mtg; I'll have to leave around
   17.25 BST.

   <DanC> "Tracker Action State Definitions" looks fine to me

   <Laura> Many thanks for reviewing and editing the Tracker
   definitions. It is important that people work from the same meanings
   to attempt shared understanding. It will aid in transparency of
   process and may help avoid future misunderstandings.

   <DanC> POSTPONED and CLOSED look good. e.g. "POSTPONED = The WG has
   decided ..."

   <Cynthia> Cynthia switched phones

   will do edit to make sure it's clear chairs have responsibility

"URL" definition in HTML5 spec

   "The defn of an HTML URL is an IRI, which allows non-ASCII
   characters."

   This makes them unsuitable for Access Control, since HTTP does not
   allow non-ASCII.

   <gsnedders> HTTP defines non-ASCII characters to be interpreted as
   ISO-8859-1, FWIW

   <Julian> gsnedders: correct, but you really want to go there for
   IRIs :-)

   <gsnedders> Julian: Well, it isn't worth much :)

   <DanC> 8.2.2.1. Determining the character encoding

   <DanC> any volunteers to make 8.2.2.1. Determining the character
   encoding a separate spec so XHR can cite it?

   <DanC> I'm interested to give it a try, though I'm not as expert on
   character encoding issues as others

   <DanC> there's a wierd "3" in [13]http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

     [13] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

   <smedero> I think Section 2.3 URLs references a different section on
   character encoding though...

   <smedero>
   [14]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.
   html#character3

     [14] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#character3

   <DanC> last edited 2008-07-24 14:58:41

   <DanC> +1 "Only the chairs should move actions to 'closed'.
   Typically moving actions from PENDINGREVIEW to CLOSED will involve
   review in the weekly telecon. "

   <MikeSmith> action-79?

   <trackbot> ACTION-79 does not exists

   <MikeSmith> action-70?

   <trackbot> ACTION-70 -- Chris Wilson to review/edit tracker
   definitions:
   [15]http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML?action=show#head-47c0b55d661dcf93f7
   6d586ddbe292c9abc597e4 -- due 2008-07-24 -- CLOSED

     [15] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML?action=show#head-47c0b55d661dcf93f76d586ddbe292c9abc597e4

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/70

     [16] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/70

   <MikeSmith> action-71?

   <trackbot> ACTION-71 -- Chris Wilson to bring up SVG/DOM issue on
   list -- due 2008-07-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/71

     [17] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/71

SVG in HTML

   <DanC> MikeSmith, did you say he intends to implement the SVG WG
   proposal?

   <DanC> ah. yes.

   <DanC> Andrew Sidwell <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>

   <smedero> Andrew is working on Hubub:
   [18]http://www.netsurf-browser.org/projects/hubbub/

     [18] http://www.netsurf-browser.org/projects/hubbub/

   <smedero> "Hubbub is an HTML5 compliant parsing library, written in
   C. It is currently in development for use with NetSurf and is
   intended to be suitable for use in other projects too. For further
   details, see the readme.

   <DanC> CW: good question; it seems to come down to whether the test
   says "you have to either draw the circle or show the fallback" or
   "you have to show the circle"

   MS/DC/CW discussing testing, and the implications of embedding
   vocabularies

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak
   the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents
   draw circles and such

   DC raises the issue of "optional features"

   <Philip> The test could just say "the DOM must contain an element
   with namespaceURI '[19]http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' localName
   'circle'"

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'

   <DanC> (4.1. Well-defined Behavior seems to be relevant; doesn't
   quite say "optional features suck; don't go there."
   [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#well-defined-behavi
   or )

     [20] http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#well-defined-behavior

   MS: if it were up to me, I'd mandate SVG support

   CW: not crazy - but we would have to mandate a particular
   version/scope of SVG, and make sure the test suite for HTML5 tests
   it thoroughly

   <DanC> (tracker crumbs: ISSUE-37 html-svg-mathml )

   <Philip> It's the same as what happens if you do
   <script>document.createElementNS('[21]http://my.fancy.spec/',
   'circle')</script> in HTML - it's a well-defined operation as far as
   HTML/DOM is concerned, and we don't care how it gets rendered since
   that's somebody else's problem

     [21] http://my.fancy.spec/'

   Philip: it's not an SEP.

   <smedero>
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0318.htm
   l

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0318.html

   <smedero> Al Gilman

   MS: Thanks Dan, ya been hepful. :)

   <Philip> (In relation to optional features, I've been (successfully)
   pushing to make the optional features in <canvas> be mandatory -
   options are annoying)

   <ed_work> regarding tests for svg in html, there may well be
   existing testcases from the CDF WG to re-use (depending on how
   compatible it is of course) and the SVG WG would surely help out too

   <DanC> (hmm... realizing I'm now supposed to do the W3C team
   coordination stuff... maybe I should ask again for help with
   table-headers)

   <MikeSmith> issue-35?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- Need to define processing requirements for
   aria states and properties when used in html -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35

     [23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35

   <DanC> (since GR no longer has write access to tracker, his actions
   should be reassinged)

   <hober> re: issue-35, do the aria people know about hsivonen's
   aria/html5 integration work?

ISSUE-35 aria-processing

   <hsivonen> hober: they are aware of it

   <smedero> DanC: Who should GR's actions go to? Someone else with
   Tracker write access who is also active in the PFWG?

   <DanC> MS: hixie's point about conformance seems more important than
   the point about openness (cf
   [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.htm
   l )

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html

   <DanC> yes, smedero ... e.g. joshue

   <hsivonen> I sent a bunch of feedback in March:
   [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2008Jan
   Mar/

     [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2008JanMar/

   <MikeSmith>
   [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.htm
   l

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html

   <MikeSmith> "ARIA specifications lack clear normative conformance
   criteria"

   <smedero> Relevant section of current WAI-ARIA draft:
   [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#impl_nonamespace "Implementation
   in HTML and other markup languages without requiring namespace
   support "

     [27] http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#impl_nonamespace

   <DanC> ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing
   the conformance point [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread,
   emphasizing the conformance point [on Dan Connolly - due
   2008-07-31].

   any other critical business?

Next meeting

   <MikeSmith> chair for next week is ChrisWilson

   adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing
   the conformance point [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

-- 
Michael(tm) Smith
http://people.w3.org/mike/
Received on Thursday, 31 July 2008 13:04:45 UTC

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