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{minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-06-26

From: Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:20:03 +0900
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080709141956.GD23542@sideshowbarker>
The HTML Working Group had its weekly issue-tracking telcon on
2008-06-26 for 60 minutes from 16:00Z 17:00Z.

  http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-html-wg-minutes.html

   Present
          ChrisWilson, smedero, +49.251.280.aacc, Josh, Julian,
          dsinger, laura, DanC, Joshue

   Regrets
          Gregory_Rosmaita, Steve_Faulkner

   Chair
          ChrisWilson

   Scribe
          MikeSmith

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Convene meeting and review action items
         2. Action-54
         3. Action-23
         4. Action-32
         5. Action-66
         6. Action-56
         7. URI error handling
         8. Forms in HTML
         9. Issues pending review
        10. issue-3 style-attribute
        11. issue-20, Improvements to the table-headers algorithm
            in the HTML 5 spec
        12. issue-32 Include a summary attribute for tables?
        13. issue-41 Decentralized extensibility
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

Convene meeting and review action items

   <ChrisWilson> first action pending review: 54
   http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

   <Joshue> Can +2 be undropped?

   <ChrisWilson> (Gregory's item)

Action-54

   action-54?

   <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Gregory Rosmaita to work with SteveF draft
   text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on
   img elements -- due 2008-06-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

   <ChrisWilson> Joshue, were you +2?

   <Joshue> @Chris, I may have been.

   <Joshue> Can't hear anything now..

   <Joshue> I will ring back in maybe?

   <Laura> For action 54 we are still waiting for a reply from the PFWG
   for Action Item 54 regarding several issues:

   <Laura> http://tinyurl.com/48uyqv

      http://tinyurl.com/48uyqv

   <Laura> http://tinyurl.com/3v68tn

      http://tinyurl.com/3v68tn

   <Laura> guidance.

   <Laura>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0205.htm
   l

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0205.html

   <Laura> No timeline was given in Al's email. Request for an Action
   Item 54 time extension until there is a response from the PFWG.

   <DanC> action-54?

   <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Gregory Rosmaita to work with SteveF draft
   text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on
   img elements -- due 2008-06-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

   <Joshue> +2 is Josh

   <oedipus> GJR notes that he has reminded the PFWG that it is the
   group whose review is pending

   <oedipus> GJR trying to get issue addressed today at face2face, but
   is last day with a heavy agenda

   <Laura> Thanks, Gregory.

   <oedipus> thank, YOU, laura

Action-23

   action-23?

   <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Gregory Rosmaita to coordinate tests using
   ARIA -- due 2008-06-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23

   <DanC> action-23?

   <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Gregory Rosmaita to coordinate tests using
   ARIA -- due 2008-06-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23

   <ChrisWilson> GJR: yes, I noted that we are discussing later today
   and moved date.

   <oedipus> thanks, ChrisW!

   <ChrisWilson> any issues people want to discuss?

   <DanC> action-32?

   <trackbot> ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product name
   of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else,
   eventually -- due 2008-01-24 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32

Action-32

   <DanC> action-56?

   <trackbot> ACTION-56 -- Chris Wilson to chris Wilson to work with
   MikeSmith and DanC on (re)plan of action for forms coordination with
   Forms WG -- due 2008-06-26 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56

Action-66

Action-56

   action-56

   action-56?

   <trackbot> ACTION-56 -- Chris Wilson to chris Wilson to work with
   MikeSmith and DanC on (re)plan of action for forms coordination with
   Forms WG -- due 2008-06-26 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56

   Joshue: want to extend this to the 24th of July
   ... waiting for formal response from PFWWWG

   <Joshue> We are also awaiting a response from PF

   <Laura> Headers Wiki Page

   <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTableHeaders

      http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTableHeaders

URI error handling

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to bring up error handling in URIs

   DanC: URI error handling seems to be what the editor is working on

   <Laura> @ Table Summary Wiki Page

   <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

      http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

   <Laura> Advice Request to PFWG

   <Laura>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Jun/0073.html

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Jun/0073.html

   DanC: it looks like this is a case where browsers do something
   different than what the specs say ...
   ... particular case relates to non-ascii chars in URIs ...

   <Joshue> Laura has already started working on updating the wiki in
   relation to @summary. I am organising user tests with screen reader
   users who will use test cases/real world data tables that use
   @summary. I hope to offer vidoe footage of the tests to the WG

   DanC: Hixie has made some test material available ...

   <oedipus> [fyi] TAG "Finding" on Associating Resources with
   Namespaces (25 June 2008) -
   http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/nsDocuments/

      http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/nsDocuments/

   DanC: I would like to get confirmation that browsers do what has
   been said ...

   <DanC> ... http://esw.w3.org/topic/UriTesting#preview

      http://esw.w3.org/topic/UriTesting#preview

   <DanC> ... http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

   related discussion:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2008Jun/thread.html#msg2

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2008Jun/thread.html#msg2

   DanC: I can volunteer to give test results for one browser. Any
   volunteers to test other browsers?

   <Julian> I can run with IE, which test?

   <ChrisWilson> http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

   <DanC> all the tests in
   http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

   <Julian> All of them? :-) Arg.

   <ChrisWilson> :P

   <Julian> Will try.

   <DanC> darn; the expected results aren't crystal clear to me in all
   cases.

   <DanC> maybe I'll mail Ian

   ChrisWilson: DanC, can you work with Hixie to see what the expected
   results are?

   <ChrisWilson> Any other issues before we take up forms?

   <scribe> ACTION: DanC to work with Hixie to confirm what expected
   results are for http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/ tests
   [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Work with Hixie to confirm what
   expected results are for
   http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/ tests on Dan Connolly
   - due 2008-07-03].

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/

   <ChrisWilson> OK, forms (based on
   http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56)

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56)

Forms in HTML

   <gsnedders> AFAIK the point of those tests is to find out what
   browsers do to document it, therefore they have no expected results

   ChrisWilson: we have in our charter a requirement related to forms,
   had a Forms TF that so far has not produced any resolutions

   <DanC> I gather he's found out and has expected results in mind as
   he writes the spec, gsnedders

   ChrisWilson: It would be better at this point to include Web Forms
   2.0 in the HTML5 spec ...
   ... so that we have some stated direction ...
   ... rather than not having a stated direction at all ...

   <Philip> (On the subject of tests, though otherwise entirely
   off-topic,
   http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/results.html
   was recently updated and shows how browsers are doing at <canvas>)

      http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/results.html

   DanC: my comment is that there are some parts of WF 2.0 that I think
   we should put in, and some parts we should omit
   ... e.g., repetition templates ...

   ChrisWilson: form data types are important
   ... how should we proceed on evaluating what parts of WF 2.0 that
   should be included and which can possibly be omitted?

   <DanC> +1 poll on a section basis

   ChrisWilson: I would suggest we put out a poll for incorporating the
   various sections of WF 2.0

   <ChrisWilson> gsnedders: chartered TF runs out next week, doesn't
   it?

   <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: Yeah, true. And they'll have failed to
   produce their chartered deliverable

   <ChrisWilson> ACTION DanC to produce poll

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Produce poll [on Dan Connolly - due
   2008-07-03].

   <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: Actually, all the charter says is, "The
   Forms Task Force expects to be done by July 2008."

   ChrisWilson: DanC will take a stab at writing up poll on forms,
   ChrisWilson and MikeSmith will review

   <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to suggest using comment part of poll
   to allow people to note which parts to omit

   <DanC> I had in mind ~4 items

   <Julian> uri tests in IE: I see a script error for
   http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/015.html...

      http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/015.html...

   <ChrisWilson> Take up pending review issues:

   <Philip> Julian, which version of IE?

   <Julian> Philip: IE7

Issues pending review

   <ChrisWilson> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

   <ChrisWilson> style-attribute

   <DanC> issue-3?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- conformance of element level style attributes
   -- RAISED

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

issue-3 style-attribute

   <DanC> this seems worth an "any objections?" mail to the WG.

   <DanC> (whee! an actual design decision!)

   <dsinger> oops

   <Joshue> Gotta go. Thanks.

   <ChrisWilson> Bye

issue-20, Improvements to the table-headers algorithm in the HTML 5
spec

   <Laura> Editor added Headers to the spec

   <Laura>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Mar/0215.htm
   l

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Mar/0215.html

   DanC: I tried a related test case with v.nu and it gave me a thumbs
   down
   ... it appears to consider @headers on td to be valid, but not on
   @th

   ChrisWilson: we will discuss table headers at PFWG f2f meeting this
   week

   <ChrisWilson> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32 is
   table summary issue

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

issue-32 Include a summary attribute for tables?

   ChrisWilson: we can take this back to PFWG and get a clearer problem
   description

issue-41 Decentralized extensibility

   ChrisWilson: David Orchard made a proposal, Ian rejected with note
   that it was by design that HTML5 does not provide a decentralized
   extensibility mechanism

   <Julian> +1 on what Chris is saying

   <ChrisWilson> ack

   <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to suggest that I don't see how this
   proposed mechanism could be implemented without added namespace
   support to text/html, if we are required to be consistent

   <DanC> ah... found it... this is why I think it's Ian's considered
   opinion, and not a misunderstanding, that he doesn't consider it
   cost-effective to take on distributed extensibilty:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0205.html
   " we actively want to make sure that

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0205.html

   <DanC> people can't willy nilly extend the language without
   coordination with

   <DanC> anyone interested in the development of the language"

   <DanC> I think distributed extensibility is valuable, but the cost
   is pretty high... maybe too high.

   <ChrisWilson> Julian: could reserve hooks for future

   <ChrisWilson> Adjourn?

   <ChrisWilson> ADJOURNED.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: DanC to work with Hixie to confirm what expected
   results are for http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/uri/encoding/ tests
   [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]



Received on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:20:43 UTC

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