W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-media@w3.org > March 2014

Re: [EME] Persistent license

From: David Dorwin <ddorwin@google.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:27:56 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHD2rsgRBomZzu0MO49WGdkdFNR2WP78wndAZ92Ve-H-PkednQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Maruyama, Shinya" <Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com>
Cc: Joe Steele <steele@adobe.com>, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com>, "public-html-media@w3.org" <public-html-media@w3.org>
tl;dr: Ignore the existing proposal for a “persistent” attribute. I’ll
provide an updated proposal this week. Also, createSession() should not be
loading persisted licenses.


Joe makes a good point that the license would specify whether the CDM is
allowed to such a license.

After thinking about this more, I do not think an attribute or the proposal
for it are the right way to handle this. Persistence is really a property
of the license request and thus should be passed to createSession(). I’ll
update the bug with a new proposal. More details below.


The original intent of such a value was to indicate to the CDM that it
should create license request(s) for a persistent license (if there are any
applicable differences). This was lost in the “persistent” attribute rough
proposal, which incorrectly focused on license storage.

In either case, the state (i.e. license) was to be stored by session ID as
the result of the update() call. loadSession() would load the state
associated with the session ID.


The proposed “persistent” attribute would have applied to the entire
MediaKeys object, but it is really only used in generating license requests
when handling createSession() calls. In addition, loadSession() probably
isn’t useful without unless persistent=true. Thus, it seems that the
intended behavior would be better addressed by an optional parameter to
createSession(). This would also allow throwing a NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR if
persistent licenses (and requests for them) are not supported.


One remaining question is whether the CDM should implicitly store a license
that allows itself to be persisted while handling the update() call. If the
server did not grant a persistable license, it is possible that the CDM
will not store a license that the application expected to be stored. This
would likely be an application problem, but it is still unexpected. Do we
need an explicit store()/persist() method on MediaKeySession? This would,
of course, only succeed when the license allows.

There might also be a use case where a special license request is needed
but the application will store the license (and thus loadSession() is not
used). With a single Boolean, there is no way to differentiate the two use
cases. This could be solved using an enum instead of a Boolean for the
extra parameter. This could also be solved by requiring an explicit
persist()/store() call as mentioned above. (Regardless of this use case, I
propose that the new createSession() parameter be an enum named
licenseType.)


Returning to the original topic of this thread, persisting sessions
requires more application logic than the simpler “streaming” use case. Such
an application likely wants to know what it has persisted, so storing the
related session IDs with that information seems reasonable.

There was no intent to be able to load stored sessions using
createSession(). There has been discussion of allowing implementations to
not fire a “message” event when the CDM already has a license for the
initData - as a way of dealing with the numerous “needkey” events that may
occur for the same key(s) - but this was always in the context of normal
streaming licenses. I don’t think this should be a method of loading
stored/persisted licenses. There are a variety of performance,
interoperability, algorithmic, and design reasons not to do so.

David


On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Maruyama, Shinya <
Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com> wrote:

>  Hi Joe,
>
>
>
> I think we can’t have an assumption that the 'license policy' can be
> available to CDM only through DRM license because retailer/ecosystem may
> requires some complemental limitations or obligations which the system
> (rather than solo DRM client) must comply with.
>
>
>
> In general, DRM license describes fundamental usage rules which DRM client
> must comply with; e.g.
>
> - user-bound or device-bound
>
> - validity period
>
> etc
>
> while retailer or ecosystem may require non-DRM limitations or obligations
> along with the license; e.g.
>
> examples for UltraViolet
>
>  - The maximum number of Devices concurrently joined to a Domain
>
> - The maximum number of concurrent LASP Sessions
>
> etc
>
>
>
> In case of caching license, the DRM license must have the permission for
> 'persist' but it is not sufficient. In addition, the distributing retailer
> or ecosystem should also allow to persist it.
>
> For instance, retailer may expect receiving license acquisition for every
> streaming to count the number of licenses issued concurrently or to check
> whether or not requesting client is revoked, etc. This may be accomplished
> by license acquisition (may be accomplished in out-of-band way though).
>
>
>
> My proposal is to add normative way substitute for existing loadSession to
> switch whether to store or load the license at runtime. Therefore, your
> proposal“ignore_cached_licenses” is also fine with me (although the name
> looks confusing because the flag also should have an affect on whether to
> store the license for the ‘privacy mode’).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shinya
>
>
>
> *From:* Joe Steele [mailto:steele@adobe.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:58 AM
> *To:* Maruyama, Shinya
> *Cc:* Mark Watson; public-html-media@w3.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [EME] Persistent license
>
>
>
> I don’t think it is useful for the application to determine the
> persistence of session information.
>
>
>
> Assume an application wants to set this attribute to “false”:
>
> The consequence for some CDMs would be a significant performance penalty.
> Most CDMs require an “individualization” step where device-specific keys
> are acquired. For some CDMs this step is costly in terms of battery cost,
> processor time, additional network transactions. So applications that want
> reasonable performance will have to figure out which key systems have this
> cost and always set this flag “true” in those cases anyway.
>
>
>
> Assume an application wants to set this attribute to “true”:
>
> The retailer sets a license policy that determines whether licenses can be
> cached and for how long. So even if the application says to cache the
> licenses the CDM will ignore this in favor of the license policy. Since the
> application is generally controlled by the retailer that is setting the
> license policy, and setting the license policy will have a more
> comprehensive effect than setting the application attribute, the retailer
> has no incentive to set the application attribute and will instead set the
> license policy at the time the license is issued.
>
>
>
> If the goal of this attribute is to protect user privacy, the user would
> be better served by running the application in “privacy mode” where no
> transaction results are cached by the browser.
>
>
>
> If the goal of this attribute is to protect retailer assets, the retailer
> would be better served by applying an appropriate license policy and
> selecting a key system that enforces it properly.
>
>
>
> I think your specific concern would be better resolved by a more specific
> attribute like “ignore_cached_licenses”. This would direct the CDM to
> ignore any cached licenses (excluding “individualized” keys mentioned
> above) and allow the application to acquire a fresh set of licenses. I
> would support that attribute.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:46 PM, Maruyama, Shinya <Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>   You mean whether to load persistent license in createSession is not
> specified explicitly but is already left to CDM implementation, right?
>
> I think between these two options; i.e. explicit loading by loadSession
> and implicit loading by createSession, there should be an another
> difference we should take care of.
>
>
>
> As for loadSession, I assume that application can implement two different
> scenarios;
>
> - In case of download file based playback, application calls loadSession
> to avoid unnecessary license acquisition.
>
> - In case of streaming, application calls createSession to acquire license
> for every playback. In this case, application may expect createSession not
> to load persisted license regardless of availability of persistent
> licenses. Unexpected use of persistent license should be avoided especially
> for the streaming case because it may cause unexpected sequence for the
> service which may expect to receive license request for every playback
>
>
>
> If we implement implicit license loading  by createSession, we can’t
> implement the latter scenario above because it is impossible to switch
> whether to load persistent license in createSession at runtime.
>
>
>
> This is why I propose to use ‘persistent’ attribute which enables
> createSession to switch the behavior at runtime.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> *From:* Mark Watson [mailto:watsonm@netflix.com <watsonm@netflix.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:38 AM
> *To:* Maruyama, Shinya
> *Cc:* public-html-media@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: [EME] Persistent license
>
>
>
> I think the intention was that if a CDM supports persistent licenses and
> when you do a createSession it finds an already persisted license that is
> appropriate for this content, then it can use that persisted license. The
> difference between createSession and loadSession is that createSession
> specifies what it needs with the initData wheras loadSession specifies what
> it needs with a sessionId.
>
>
>
> ...Mark
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Maruyama, Shinya <
> Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
>
>
> What do you think of loading license by createSession with using
> ‘persistent’ attribute’? Do you think there is still room to discuss
> whether to support this as another option to load persistent license or
> even as a substitute for existing loadSession?
>
> I suppose there are some disadvantages on current loadSession.
>
> - Using sessionId requires application to store sessionId beyond the
> lifetime of the session, which looks a bit weird semantically
>
> - Application need to use some identifier; e.g. KIDs, initData, a content
> identifier obtained in out-of-band way etc, to retrieve the sessionId after
> all.
>
>
>
> I suppose David’s proposal for ‘persistent’ attribute in
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025#c10 would provide us
> with solutions for these disadvantages and moreover consistent EME API for
> the ‘persistent’ license usecase.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shinya
>
>
>
> *From:* Mark Watson [mailto:watsonm@netflix.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:39 AM
> *To:* Maruyama, Shinya
> *Cc:* public-html-media@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: [EME] Persistent license
>
>
>
> Shinya,
>
>
>
> Yes, the note regarding session id uniqueness was intended to explain that
> if the UA supports retrieval of sessions by SessionId (now using
> loadSession) then it will need to ensure that the session ids have the
> necessary scope.
>
>
>
> We should consider making this normative, since as you say loadSession is
> not very useful otherwise.
>
>
>
> ... Mark
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:36 AM, "Maruyama, Shinya" <
> Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m concerned about ‘persistent’ attribute usage mentioned in
> Bugzilla#24025.
>
>
>
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025#c10
>
>
>
> The attribute seems to be very useful to switch at runtime whether to
> store acquired license by createSession or load stored license by
> loadSession. I prefer this option rather than CDM deciding it implicitly as
> current methods assume. (There should be the case where application wants
> to avoid storing the license no matter whether the license/drm permits to
> store it. ‘persistent’ attribute seems to be reasonable to introduce for
> the reason).
>
>
>
> In addition to these usages, I wonder if we could use the attribute to
> determine whether to load stored license in createSession. That is,
> persistent=true enables createSession to behave like offline first as
> application cache. Meaning, createSession with persistent=true tries to use
> cached license first. If there is no available license then it tries to
> acquire the license from server.
>
>
>
> In the use-case of loading persistent license, I think the usage of
> createSession above is better than existing loadSession because of a
> interoperability problem for loadSession(sessionId). The rules of sessionId
> generation does not ensure that sessionId is unique across the browsing
> context. It may cause sessionId collision between current sessionId and a
> sessionId stored in CDM, which may result in unexpected overriding of
> sessionId or loading wrong license due to unexpected overriding etc. Unless
> EME clearly specifies that UA supporting loadSession must take care of such
> a collision, loadSession may behave in browser dependent way (The
> description in 1.1.4 “Note: Some use cases may require that Session IDs be
> unique within the origin over time, including across browsing sessions.”
> may imply the rule but currently this is just a informative).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shinya Maruyama
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 17 March 2014 17:28:45 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 20:33:02 UTC