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RE: {minutes} HTML WG media telecon 2013-11-05 - MSE status and Last Call bug discussion

From: Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 16:47:13 +0000
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "public-html-media@w3.org" <public-html-media@w3.org>
CC: "Aaron Colwell (acolwell@google.com)" <acolwell@google.com>
Message-ID: <4cf745de6e8f4170a678761251f84ebe@BL2PR03MB604.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Minutes -> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-html-media-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                  HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

05 Nov 2013

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Oct/0043.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-html-media-irc

Attendees

   Present
          [Microsoft], markw, pladd, Aaron_Colwell, adrianba, pal,
          BobLund, AWK, ddorwin

   Regrets
   Chair
          Aaron Colwell

   Scribe
          Adrian Bateman

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
         2. [6]Previous meeting minutes
         3. [7]Review of action items and issues
         4. [8]status of bugs
         5. [9]Unresolved Last Call bugs
         6. [10]Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality
            metrics again
         7. [11]Bug 23441 - Establish an MSE bytestream format
            registry
         8. [12]Bug 23558 - Requirement to ignore additional
            top-level boxes in ISO BMFF limits forward
            compatibility.
         9. [13]Bug 23661 - video stream requirement would
            restrict sign-language use cases
        10. [14]Bug 23663 - Section 2.4.4 is not clear about
            whether it runs while seeking
        11. [15]Exiting from Last Call
        12. [16]Any other business
        13. [17]Adjournment
     * [18]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 05 November 2013

Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe

   acolwell: done

Previous meeting minutes

   acolwell: posted

Review of action items and issues

   <acolwell>
   [19]https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/43

     [19] https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/43

status of bugs

   acolwell: as of this morning 3 open

Unresolved Last Call bugs

Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality metrics again

   [20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169

     [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169

   acolwell: lots of discussion - aaron can live with won't fixing
   this
   ... believe paul contacted dsinger who said he would contact
   the appropriate people
   ... not heard anything

   markw: i think one of the original comments was about
   microsecond granularity
   ... so i think we have to consider this rather than won't
   fixing the whole issue
   ... current spec seems infeasible - perhaps say as accurate as
   one refresh interval

   acolwell: i could propose text - should we change micro to
   milli

   jdsmith: we talked about maybe 1 millisecond resolution -
   realistically refresh rates will be in multiple millisecond

   markw: units could still be microseconds - don't think we could
   say millisecond - think it should be in terms of frame interval

   acolwell: mark, could you propose some text?

   markw: okay?

   acolwell: any other questions on this one?

   adrianba: mark are you okay to provide text?

   markw: yes

Bug 23441 - Establish an MSE bytestream format registry

   [21]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23441

     [21] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23441

   acolwell: i checked in a change for this yesterday - made
   changes so MSE doesn't refer to a specific format
   ... need to do another pass - consider this done though - new
   bugs if there are other tweaks needed

   adrianba: two issues
   ... 1) not sure if we lost the sense of "you don't have to
   support this format but if you do you should do it this way"
   ... 2) we have to figure out how to publish the break-out
   documents - perhaps as W3C Notes
   ... or maybe something less formal
   ... not a major problem but something we need to think through

   acolwell: yes, not sure how we will regulate additions

   adrianba: i think we need people to look through these changes
   and give feedback

   acolwell: agree - i started with glenn's key system document
   removing the tricky parts of key systems
   ... it's bare bones right now
   ... might need more structure for media formats
   ... the other thing is whether we need different editors so the
   people who care about those formats have more ownership

   pal: i'm reading the proposed text - it says it is the
   authoritative source of formats
   ... if it isn't listed should it not work?

   acolwell: we can't stop that but people who accept a format
   should register the format so we get interop
   ... you can do what you want with MSE but if you want interop
   then you should register

   pal: the registry doesn't say what implementations support

   acolwell: yes, you have to use the API to determine that

   pal: right, i think the sentence is misleading because it
   suggests that if it is not there at can't be implemented
   ... someone could support something not listed and still find
   out with isTypeSupported

   acolwell: yes, but that's not ideal - rather that they filed a
   bug with proposed text
   ... ACTION-43 is closed

Bug 23558 - Requirement to ignore additional top-level boxes in ISO
BMFF limits forward compatibility.

   [22]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23558

     [22] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23558

   acolwell: mark and i responded - don't think we've come to a
   conclusion yet

   <markw> I just suggested we close WONT FIX

   markw: i think the existing text is fine - if i come up with
   better text then we can look later

   acolwell: now that iso is not in the MSE spec it technically
   shouldn't be a blocker
   ... resolving the bug right now WONTFIX

   close ACTION-45

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-45.

Bug 23661 - video stream requirement would restrict sign-language use
cases

   [23]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23661

     [23] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23661

   acolwell: resolved WORKSFORME this morning because we're not
   restricting anything

   close ACTION-46

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-46.

   <pal> Proposed text: "The byte stream format registry provides
   a mapping between return values of canPlayType() and byte
   stream format specifications."

Bug 23663 - Section 2.4.4 is not clear about whether it runs while
seeking

   [24]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23663

     [24] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23663

   adrianba: was planning to find a bug to dup this to indicating
   that we wanted someone to work on a primer

   acolwell: i will make the text change i indicated
   ... i will make the text change today - simple one line change

   adrianba: so we'll close 23663 later today and then we just
   need text for the jitter issue
   ... if mark can add the text for 23169 to the bug and we give
   people a couple of days to review
   ... then we can add to the spec and close
   ... i think we've met the requirement of contacting people who
   reported issues using Bugzilla

Exiting from Last Call

   acolwell: i'm not an expert here - not sure if i can lead this

   adrianba: i can talk through this
   ... [discussion of LC to CR process]

   acolwell: any other questions?

   pal: i suggested some text in 23441

   [25]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23441#c2

     [25] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23441#c2

   <pal> The statement "the byte stream format registry is the
   authoritative source for byte stream format specifications that
   can be accepted by a SourceBuffer" implies that implementations
   cannot support a byte stream unless it is listed in the
   registry. Per the call earlier, this does not sound like it is
   the objective.

   <pal> Suggest instead: "The byte stream format registry
   provides a mapping between return values of canPlayType() and
   byte stream format specifications."

   acolwell: we would need to tweak this - these are values for
   isTypeSupported

   pal: my point is to make a statement of fact instead of
   something normative
   ... if you want to see what is the defining spec for a
   particular format go see this registry

   acolwell: part of the reason why i was using authoritative
   source text was to try to have the weight of saying you have to
   implement it this way
   ... adrian's comments suggest i wasn't successful
   ... so i will try again to address both your concerns

   pal: thank you

Any other business

   acolwell: nothing

   <pal> see you next week

Adjournment

   acolwell: i think we're done for today

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]


___________________
From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 4:09 PM
To: public-html-media@w3.org
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG media telecon 2013-11-05 - MSE status and Last Call bug discussion

The HTML WG media teleconference meeting will occur on 2013-11-05 for up to 60 minutes from 15:00Z to 16:00Z.
 
http://timeanddate.com/s/2h08
 
Tokyo midnight, Amsterdam/Oslo 17:00, London/Dublin 16:00, New Jersey/York 11:00, Kansas City 10:00, Seattle/San Francisco 08:00.
 
Chair of the meeting: Paul Cotton 
Scribe: TBD
 
(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)
 
== Agenda ==
 
1. Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
 
2. Previous meeting minutes
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/22-html-media-minutes.html  
 
3. Review of action items and issues
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/
MSE-related actions are given below.
 
4. MSE status and bugs
 
a) Media Source Extensions editor's draft: 
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html 
Status as of Oct 29:  Last updated on Oct 29.

c) Media Source Extensions bugs: 
http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej 
Status as of Oct 29: 5 bugs.  See below.

d) All Last Call bugs
http://tinyurl.com/lowrcmq

5. Unresolved Last Call bugs

a) Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality metrics again
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169 
See Aaron's response:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c7  

ACTION-42: Ask jerry, mark, and dsinger to follow-up on bug 23169 [on Paul Cotton]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/42
DONE.

b) Bug 23441 - Establish an MSE bytestream format registry
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23441 

ACTION-43: Put proposal on the table for bug 23441 by the next meeting [on Aaron Colwell]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/43

c)  Bug 23558 - Requirement to ignore additional top-level boxes in ISO BMFF limits forward compatibility.
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23558
Response:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23558#c1 

ACTION-45: Respond to bug 23558 [on Mark Watson]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/43

d) Bug 23661 - video stream requirement would restrict sign-language use cases
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23661 

ACTION-46: File bugs for a11y tf issues [on Aaron Colwell]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/46
DONE.

e) Bug 23663 - Section 2.4.4 is not clear about whether it runs while seeking
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23661 

6. Exiting from Last Call

a) W3C Process description of Call for Implementations
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#cfi

b) LC exit and CR entrance check list
- General requirements for advancement - See http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#transition-reqs
- LC report - see http://tinyurl.com/mkwygp4 
- Formal objections - None at this time
- Start and minimum length of CR
- Features at risk
- Present and expected implementations and status of any test suite
- CfC for CR entrance at Task Force and WG level

7. Any other business
 
8. Chair and Scribe for next meeting
Next meeting will be in two weeks on Oct 8.
 
9. Adjournment
 
== Dial-in and IRC Details ==
 
Zakim teleconference bridge:
   +1.617.761.6200, conference 63342 ("media")
https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_5366
 
Supplementary IRC chat (logged):
   #html-media on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
Received on Tuesday, 5 November 2013 16:47:50 UTC

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