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RE: {minutes} HTML WG media telecon 2013-08-06 - EME status and bug discussion

From: Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 15:55:05 +0000
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "public-html-media@w3.org" <public-html-media@w3.org>
Message-ID: <2c18de44c6c04eaf9b856cfd9e43d446@BL2PR03MB604.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Minutes -> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html



                               - DRAFT -

                  HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

06 Aug 2013

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html


   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-irc


Attendees

   Present
          pladd, glenn, +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb,
          ddorwin, adrianba, johnsim, [Microsoft], Kevin_Kershaw,
          pal, niels_thorwirth

   Regrets
   Chair
          glenn

   Scribe
          Adrian Bateman

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
         2. [6]Previous meeting minutes
         3. [7]Review of action items and issues
         4. [8]EME status and bugs
         5. [9]Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure
            CDM-level interop
         6. [10]Bug 20965 - EME results in a loss of control over
            security and privacy.
         7. [11]Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded
            loss of control of security and privacy demanded.
         8. [12]Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle
            states and/or events
         9. [13]Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate
            sessions for the same key(s)
        10. [14]Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for
            implementations that choose to support the ISO Base
            Media File Format
        11. [15]Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession
            close() and clearing the keys attribute
        12. [16]Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of
            the media element when the key for an encrypted block
            is not available
        13. [17]Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs
        14. [18]Other bugs for discussion
        15. [19]Any other business
        16. [20]Adjournment
     * [21]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 06 August 2013

   <ddorwin> I can't talk much today.

   <glenn> adrian, are you on the call?

   <glenn> scribenick: adrianba

   <glenn> agenda:
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013A

   ug/0005.html

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html


   <scribe> Chair: Glenn Adams

   <scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe

Previous meeting minutes

   glenn: any comments?

Review of action items and issues

   glenn: actions are in the agenda

   <glenn> ISSUE-1?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition
   into a separate specification -- raised

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1


     [23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1


   ISSUE-1?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition
   into a separate specification -- raised

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1


     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1


   <ddorwin> We usually just note this and move on.

   glenn: any comments?

EME status and bugs

   glenn: EME draft last updated jul 16
   ... 15 bugs open

   <glenn> [25]http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo


     [25] http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo


   <glenn>
   [26]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944


     [26] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944


Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop

   glenn: there were a couple of comments since the last meeting
   ... i proposed a way to resolve this bug
   ... Robert O'Callahan responded that it wasn't as strong as he
   desired
   ... i responded that he'd have to convince the group of his
   proposal
   ... he's requesting a fairly strong set of information about
   CDM
   ... i'm recommending a voluntary registry in the wiki

   adrianba: i'd be okay with the wiki proposal

   glenn: does anyone support robert's proposal?
   ... does anyone think we should keep it open for longer?

   <glenn>
   [27]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c15


     [27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c15


   glenn: can we get an action on the editors to implement the
   resolution in comment 15

   johnsim: i'm a little unclear about what we're adding to the
   spec
   ... just a link to a wiki?

   glenn: not suggesting making it a recommendation - in order to
   avoid collisions of key system names you can register here

   johnsim: so it would just be a registry of the names?

   glenn: there could be a comments field

   adrianba: recommend glenn creates the wiki page, maybe with an
   example entry, and adds proposed spec text to the bug

   <glenn> ACTION: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key
   system names [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html#action

   01]

   <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register
   nicknames at <[29]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.

     [29] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users%3E.


   <glenn> Action glenn to draft spec language for inclusions as
   note to address comment #15 of bug 20944

   <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register
   nicknames at <[30]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.

     [30] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users%3E.


Bug 20965 - EME results in a loss of control over security and
privacy.

   [31]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965


     [31] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965


   glenn: i proposed a section called privacy concerns
   ... giving an example from webcrypto

   <glenn>
   [32]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965#c32


     [32] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965#c32


   glenn: any input on this?

   <glenn> adrianba: 2 parts to this issue

   <glenn> ... specific information: what are privacy
   implications?

   <glenn> ... does the design support take privacy into account?

   <glenn> adrianba: so is api asynch at right time to be able to
   ask user for permissions, etc?

   <johnsim> my microphone was muted at the time (???)

   <glenn> adrianba: we've discussed this in relation to other
   topics

   <glenn> ... between time session is created and session is
   ready, then user could be prompted if user decides not to allow
   use of EME

   <glenn> ... but haven't exhaustively considered this topic

   <glenn> ... henri's comment #9 also talks about storage of data

   <glenn> glenn: to adrianba, do you have any recommendations on
   how to proceed with this bug?

   <glenn> adrianba: prompt more discussion on ML ?

   glenn: it seems to me that a better way would be to attempt to
   draft some minimal language that could be used to fill in a
   section on privacy considerations
   ... do we have a section in the document on this right now?
   ... any volunteers to draft this?
   ... i will go ahead an volunteer to draft language on potential
   privacy considerations

   <glenn> Action glenn to draft language on potential privacy
   considerations

   <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register
   nicknames at <[33]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.

     [33] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users%3E.


   glenn: not an expert on this topic, will probably copy
   something from somewhere else and then put it on the list to
   solicit comments
   ... and also note other editorial comments, for example needing
   to look at API async

Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of
security and privacy demanded.

   [34]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966


     [34] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966


   glenn: in february, adrian asked for more information from the
   submitter
   ... comment 1 had asked for spec text to change
   ... i propose that we close this issue without prejudice
   because there is no information provided
   ... but it could be opened with new information
   ... any objection to this?

   <ddorwin> Also note that privacy is being discussed/addressed
   in bug 20965.

   <glenn> RESOLVED: close bug 20966 without prejudice due to lack
   of essential information; allow reopening only if substantive
   new info is provided;

   glenn: any objections to this resolution?

   <glenn> Action adrianba to implement closing 20966

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Implement closing 20966 [on
   Adrian Bateman - due 2013-08-13].

Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events

   [35]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854


     [35] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854


   glenn: resolution that adrian would implement solution as
   discussed
   ... any progress?

   adrianba: no progress yet - still a little discussion in the
   bug
   ... assume the resolution was without the state attribute
   ... i wasn't present at the end of the meeting last time

   <ddorwin> I don't feel strongly about the state attribute
   (certainly not as strongly as I do about addressing the bug
   overall).

   adrianba: not clear if the state attribute should be a separate
   bug or discussed here

   <ddorwin> If people have use cases for the state attribute,
   that's fine. We could always add it later, though.

   glenn: david, is there a way to resolve your comment?
   ... anyone proposing adding new information?
   ... then we should go ahead and act on the action and raise any
   issues

   <glenn>
   [36]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5


     [36] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5


Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same
key(s)

   [37]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855


     [37] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855


   glenn: sounds like this needs further thought
   ... if anyone has thoughts post to the mailing list

   ACTION-25?

   <trackbot> ACTION-25 -- David Dorwin to and John S to work on
   corner cases for bug 17673 -- due 2013-07-19 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [38]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25


     [38] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25


Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that
choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format

   [39]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673


     [39] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673


   johnsim: i have not completed this

   ACTION-25 due in 1 week

   <trackbot> Set ACTION-25 And John S to work on corner cases for
   bug 17673 due date to 2013-08-13.

   ACTION-27?

   <trackbot> ACTION-27 -- Adrian Bateman to add comments to bug
   17750 summarising the recent discussion of close -- due
   2013-07-09 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> [40]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27


     [40] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27


Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing
the keys attribute

   [41]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750


     [41] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750


   glenn: waiting for mark's input - mark's not on the call at the
   moment
   ... joe proposes to keep close but indicate that it is a hint
   ... joe's not on the call
   ... sounds like we need to defer until the next meeting

   <glenn> ACTION-27 due in 1 week

   <trackbot> Set ACTION-27 Add comments to bug 17750 summarising
   the recent discussion of close due date to 2013-08-13.

Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element
when the key for an encrypted block is not available

   [42]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515


     [42] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515


   glenn: david, do you have input on this?

   <glenn>
   [43]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c11


     [43] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c11


   ddorwin: i was just clarifying what i think joe had said

   glenn: do we have enough information to make progress?

   ddorwin: probably need to propose text and then discuss that

   glenn: would you like an action to do that?

   ddorwin: i probably won't do it in the next couple of weeks

   <glenn> action ddorwin to propose text to resolve bug 18515

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Propose text to resolve bug
   18515 [on David Dorwin - due 2013-08-13].

Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs

   [44]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21869


     [44] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21869


   glenn: fairly lengthy thread with joe and david
   ... status?

   ddorwin: i replied to the thread - haven't had chance to look
   at the reply from this morning

   glenn: need to leave this open

Other bugs for discussion

   glenn: any others?

Any other business

   glenn: hearing none
   ... Next EME meeting will be on Tue Aug 13.

Adjournment

   glenn: thanks everyone

   <glenn> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key
   system names [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html#action

   01]

   [End of minutes]
______________________
From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 2:53 PM
To: public-html-media@w3.org
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG media telecon 2013-08-06 - EME status and bug discussion

The HTML WG media teleconference meeting will occur on 2013-08-06 for up to 60 minutes from 15:00Z to 16:00Z.
 
http://timeanddate.com/s/2ea8

 
Tokyo midnight, Amsterdam/Oslo 17:00, London/Dublin 16:00, New Jersey/York 11:00, Kansas City 10:00, Seattle/San Francisco 08:00.
 
Chair of the meeting: TBD (Paul Cotton is on vacation)
Scribe: TBD
 
(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)
 
== Agenda ==
 
1. Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
 
2. Previous meeting minutes
http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-html-media-minutes.html 

3. Review of action items and issues
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/

Note: Outstanding actions associated with open bugs are later in the agenda.

a) ISSUE-1: Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1


4. EME status and bugs
 
a) Encrypted Media Extensions editor's draft
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html  
Last updated on Jul 16

b) Encrypted Media Extensions bugs: 
http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo

Status as of Aug 05: 15 bugs

c) Proposed resolutions for certain bugs
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Jul/0022.html 
[1] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944

[2] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965

[3] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966


d) Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854#c9 
Note: We decided on Jul 30 that Adrian could implement the solution as discussed.

e) Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5 
Note: Action on this bug is dependent on resolving Bug 21854 (see above).  Discussed by not resolved on Jul 30.

f) ACTION-25: And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 (David)
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673 
Note: On Jul 30 we changed the due date of this action to Aug 06.  See:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673#c14


g) ACTION-27: Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close (Adrian)
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750 
Note: On Jul 16 several people agreed to review and add comments and we agreed to pick up at the Jul 30 meeting.  Awaiting Mark’s input.

h) Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515 
Note:  Joe Steele offered to add new input on Jul 16.

i) Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21869#c8

Note: Discussed on Jul 16.

j) Other bugs for discussion

5. EME bugs awaiting input

a) Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of security and privacy demanded
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966#c7

Note: Added to SOTD but awaiting proposed text.

6. Any other business
 
7. Chair and Scribe for next meeting.
 Note:  Next EME meeting will be on Tue Aug 13.

8. Adjournment
 
== Dial-in and IRC Details ==
 
Zakim teleconference bridge:
   +1.617.761.6200, conference 63342 ("media")
https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_5366

 
Supplementary IRC chat (logged):
   #html-media on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

15 bugs found. 
ID▼ 
Assignee 
Status 
Summary 
Changed 
21869 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs 
2013-07-16 
21855 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
ASSI 
Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s) 
2013-06-18 
21854 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events 
2013-06-18 
21798 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
Revisit MediaKeyError codes 
2013-04-26 
20991 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
MediaKeys constructor: make CDM loading asynchronous and fix the load failure algorithm 
2013-04-27 
20966 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
REOP 
EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of security and privacy demanded. 
2013-02-26 
20965 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
REOP 
EME results in a loss of control over security and privacy. 
2013-06-07 
20944 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop 
2013-06-05 
20622 
watsonm@netflix.com 
ASSI 
SessionID may be assigned asynchronously in MediaKeys.createSession 
2013-04-27 
19809 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
Specify which portion of addKey() algorithm to run when updating license for a key 
2013-04-27 
18515 
ddorwin@google.com 
ASSI 
Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available 
2013-06-07 
17750 
ddorwin@google.com 
ASSI 
Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute 
2013-07-16 
17673 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
REOP 
Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format 
Thu 18:47 
17660 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
REOP 
need token relative with user identity for a new generateKeyRequest parameter 
2012-10-31 
17199 
watsonm@netflix.com 
ASSI 
Provide examples for and get feedback on Key Release 
2013-07-16 
15 bugs found.


Received on Tuesday, 6 August 2013 15:58:50 UTC

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