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Re: Hangul characters upright or sideways in vertical flow?

From: 신정식 <jshin1987@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:30:24 -0700
Message-ID: <CAE1ONj_W_CAUwO=1TTKWfUgh8ijN-e1h86bhZoj2Q2_cONjtug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Cc: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>, "public-html-ig-ko@w3.org" <public-html-ig-ko@w3.org>, "public-i18n-cjk@w3.org" <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>, Eric Muller <emuller@adobe.com>
Hi again,

I'm very curious (this is asking Eric) as to what led him to believe that
Korean Hangul is rotated side-ways when written vertically.  As you can see
in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hunmin_jeong-eum.jpg,  whether it's a
syllable or a letter (Jamo), upright orientation is used when text is set
vertically.

Contrary to what he wrote, most Korean newspapers (some newsmagazines) used
vertical layout until relatively recently (say, late 1980's or early 1990's)
as you can see http://newslibrary.naver.com/search/searchByDate.nhn
I think book publishers (even conservative ones) switched completely to
horizontal layouts earlier than newspapers. I don't have a single Korean
book in my shelves typset vertically although my father's bookshelves had
pretty many (in 1970's).

Jungshik

2011/10/4 Jungshik SHIN (신정식) <jshin1987@gmail.com>

> Hi,
>
> I second (actually third/fourth) opinions expressed by Martin, Paul and
> Wonsuk. Martin beat me to saying everything I wanted to say and there's
> little to add.
>
> One possible case where side-way rendering is used is book tiles on spines.
> A brief survey of my bookshelves find some Korean books (published in
> 2000's) that have titles on spines rotated. See the image I'm attaching.
> However, the majority of books have titles on spines with upright Korean
> syllables.
>
> For images  Korean typeset vertically, see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hunmin_jeong-eum.jpg   (15th century)
> or
> http://newslibrary.naver.com/search/searchByDate.nhn  (newspaper images in
> 20th century)
>
> Jungshik
>
>
>
> 2011/10/4 "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
>
>> Hello Koji,
>>
>> I have cc'ed Eric directly.
>>
>> Our Korean experts on this list may have some more to say on this issue,
>> but I'm extremely surprised at the idea of turning Korean Hangul sidewise in
>> vertical flow.
>>
>> I have a few books here about the history of Hangul, and of course when
>> Hangul was invented, it was written each syllable standing upright in a
>> vertical flow (i.e. same orientation as in horizontal flow). That's totally
>> natural given that one of the design elements of Korean Hangul is that as in
>> Chinese, each syllable fits in a square, and given that in most texts from
>> the start until recently, Hanja (Kanji) and Hangul were mixed.
>>
>> If you don't believe me, just search for images from Seoul and check out
>> how Hangul is oriented on buildings when it's written vertically.
>>
>> As for Yi, unless there is some material that clearly proves the contrary,
>> definitely also make it upright in vertical flow. See e.g.
>> http://www.babelstone.co.uk/**Yi/script.html<http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Yi/script.html>
>> .
>>
>> Regards,    Martin.
>>
>>
>> On 2011/10/05 8:19, Koji Ishii wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm sorry to ask you guys about vertical flow knowing it's not of much
>>> interests, but it'd be great if someone can help me to resolve an issue we
>>> have: whether Hangul characters should be rendered upright, or rotated
>>> sideways in vertical flow?
>>>
>>> I was thinking it should be rendered upright, and I believe MS Word does
>>> so, but there's a proposal to rotate them sideways:
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/www-style/2011Oct/0104.**html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Oct/0104.html>
>>>
>>> I understand Korean doesn't use vertical flow these days. But this could
>>> also affect EPUB, where you may want to create old documents in EPUB or HTML
>>> format for e-book purposes. I'm also not sure Korean never use vertical
>>> flow, or still rarely use.
>>>
>>> Your opinions are greatly appreciated in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Koji
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 5 October 2011 03:31:02 GMT

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