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Re: Question about HTML5 and how it is implemented worldwide

From: Davis Peixoto <davis.peixoto@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:18:07 -0200
Message-ID: <AANLkTinN17gUnOAho2ZcUxVWL6hy9HmPLJCkyNHJMa05@mail.gmail.com>
To: "T.J. Crowder" <tj@crowdersoftware.com>
Cc: Brown Derek <Derek.Brown@gps.eni.it>, public-html-comments@w3.org
Derek,

TJ gave some nice references to read and learn about. Hope you figure out
who plays each role into technologies deployment.

As you can see, entities and organizations are not just simply
inventing/modifying things just because. There is a strong underlying need
for each change, and they made each change as needed, after discussing a lot
upon major points.

Browser vendors adoption is the point as I said before. It is a two way road
actually. Yes, because a browser vendor can implement their "own cool
features". This happened a lot, starting from Netscape. Thing is, one
browser vendor can create a cool feature, that doesn't exists in the
standards. Other browser vendors can make their similar solutions, thus web
developers can create sites with those features. As it is cool, stable and
adopted, this feature can be suggested to become part of specification. I
can't remember a good reference about history, but the case I just told can
be ilustrated with AJAX history.

This is why specs continue to evolve. And hope you understand why it can be
so difficult to make an "across the universe" thing. Because what is
launched now, can take a long time to be adopted for all browser vendors,
and even in this case, always there will be people using prior versions from
major browsers, and who uses IE6 or FF 2.5 for example, is limited to enjoy
sites created with new technologies.

Davis / T.J. –



Thank you for those answers ... For some reason, I was looking at it in a
really confusing way – way too broad of a spectrum.

If I am understanding right, you are simply modifying a ‘*document*’ per se
according to the standards which have been set down

(within the HTML framework) – then implementation depends on the specific
browser language.



Another quick question – who makes/made the ‘*standards*’?  And can they be
changed or updated?

I would assume so as computers are changing by the second it seems …



Thanks again.  And thank you for your efforts to make the web a more
fantastic place to roam.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:16 AM, T.J. Crowder <tj@crowdersoftware.com>wrote:

> Derek,
>
> I suggest kicking around the W3C website (www.w3.org) and Wikipedia (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3c, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Html). The
> first HTML "standard", HTML 2.0, was released by the W3C in 1995. Since then
> there have been several versions of it, most notably HTML 3.2 (early 1997)
> and 4.0 (late 1997). Meanwhile, vendors continued to innovate independent of
> the W3C. In 2004, the WHATWG (http://www.whatwg.org/,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whatwg) was founded by people from a
> combination of browser vendors "*...to address the need for one coherent
> development environment for Web applications, through the creation of
> technical specifications that are intended to be implemented in mass-market
> Web browsers.*" The WHATWG now has members from Opera, Mozilla, Apple, and
> Google (as well as an independent member); as far as I know there's no
> Microsoft member, apparently one was invited in 2007 but he says it was
> impossible for him to join because the WHATWG didn't have a patent policy (
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/cwilso/archive/2007/01/10/you-me-and-the-w3c-aka-reinventing-html.aspx).
> The HTML current specification is being driven by both organizations. And
> yes, of course it will continue to evolve.
>
> Best,
> --
> T.J. Crowder
> www / crowder software / com
> tj / crowder software / com
>
>
> On 19 November 2010 08:03, Brown Derek <Derek.Brown@gps.eni.it> wrote:
>
>>  Davis / T.J. –
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for those answers ... For some reason, I was looking at it in a
>> really confusing way – way too broad of a spectrum.
>>
>> If I am understanding right, you are simply modifying a ‘*document*’ per
>> se according to the standards which have been set down
>>
>> (within the HTML framework) – then implementation depends on the specific
>> browser language.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another quick question – who makes/made the ‘*standards*’?  And can they
>> be changed or updated?
>>
>> I would assume so as computers are changing by the second it seems …
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again.  And thank you for your efforts to make the web a more
>> fantastic place to roam.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Derek
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Davis Peixoto [mailto:davis.peixoto@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Donnerstag, 18. November 2010 18:50
>> *To:* T.J. Crowder
>> *Cc:* Brown Derek; public-html-comments@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Question about HTML5 and how it is implemented worldwide
>>
>>
>>
>> Derek,
>>
>>
>>
>> for clarifying reasons I will use a few dummy examples. Hope you enjoy.
>> Seasoned guys, don't take it so harsh.
>>
>>
>>
>> HTML is a standard for writing documents that can be shared over internet.
>> Now, keep in mind that compatibility is a two sides matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> First, we need applications using those standards and technologies. I
>> mean, we need sites written making use of those tags and interfaces. This is
>> a web developers duty. You can make your part here.
>>
>>
>>
>> This isn't complicate. You implement what you need, based on what
>> standards allows you to. Period.
>>
>>
>>
>> The complicate part is the another side: support from who makes browsers.
>> Google, Opera, Mozilla, Microsoft, Apple, Nokia... You can use new tags and
>> interfaces (program with javascript/dom to add cool drag and drop effects,
>> dynamic drawing with canvas, use localStorage... ) but not every browser can
>> recognize, render and display everything as you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> Go further. Not everyone use the same machine configuration, nor the same
>> browser. One person would like to use IE8 upon Windows7, another person
>> would use IE6 upon a Windows XP, and a third would browse using Safari
>> Mobile on his iPhone4.
>>
>>
>>
>> That is the major problem from universe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if all people use the latest version of their preferred browser, note
>> that browser vendors implement the standards they judge more important
>> first, and let one or another feature for future releases (perhaps the
>> future decade).
>>
>>
>>
>> And based on what is used/needed according to the current status of web
>> development, sometimes there are extensions over the current standard,
>> putting more things web developers and browser vendor need/want/desire.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a circle. The solution? Best practices and more best practices.
>> Google for "javascript feature detection". That's is a good point to start.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 3:43 PM, T.J. Crowder <tj@crowdersoftware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Derek,
>>
>>
>>
>> HTML5 is a* specification*, or a set of specifications, depending on your
>> viewpoint. It is not an *implementation*.
>>
>>
>>
>> The specifications will be ( / are being / have been to some extent)
>> implemented by *vendors*. In this case, the vendors will be folks
>> providing web browsers, so we're talking about Google, Microsoft, Mozilla,
>> Opera, Apple, etc., etc. Some parts of HTML5 "merely" standardize things
>> that the vendors have already done; other parts of HTML5 are new and will
>> need to be implemented.The extent to which aspects of HTML5 are actually
>> implemented will vary by vendor.The good news is that the the vendors
>> creating browsers are actively involved in the specification effort, which
>> is a big change from some years ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> So answering your question: The W3C and the HTML5 working group
>> don't/won't actually create implementations at all (although some of the
>> people participating may *also*work for a vendor and may implement things
>> for that vendor), vendors will/do.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope that clarifies things a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>>
>> T.J. Crowder
>>
>> Independent Software Engineer
>>
>> www / crowdersoftware / com
>>
>> tj / crowdersoftware / com
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 18 November 2010 14:16, Brown Derek <Derek.Brown@gps.eni.it> wrote:
>>
>> Good Afternoon
>>
>> A colleague of mine and I were wondering how you implement these HTML 5
>> changes across the world so everyone
>>
>> can benefit from the changes you think of?
>>
>> So, we have HTML v.1 and you can make borders and tables and fun stuff
>> insert pictures and such. But then
>>
>> you decide that you want to drag and drop photos into websites here comes
>> v.5. I can imagine you writing code
>>
>> on your computer and them making your personal computer do this magic but
>> HOW the heck do you write the
>>
>> general worldwide language and make it so everyone across the universe can
>> use it?
>>
>> Fascinating.
>>
>> I would perceive the answer being relatively simple, but at this point, my
>> knowledge base is extremely minimal.
>>
>> I am still fighting with v.1 so to speak.
>>
>> Thanks for your answer and all your work.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Derek
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Um abrao, Perdigo.
>>
>>
>> ******************************************************************************************
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>> This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or
>> otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the person(s)
>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any reading, use,
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>>
>
>


-- 
Um abraηo, Perdigγo.
Received on Friday, 19 November 2010 11:18:40 GMT

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