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Re: HTML5's Q element

From: Ryan Roberts <hello@ryanroberts.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:56:33 +0100
Message-ID: <4A9E7991.1050205@ryanroberts.co.uk>
To: "T.J. Crowder" <tj@crowdersoftware.com>
CC: public-html-comments@w3.org
I'm also in support of Yahia's points, the UA shouldn't add quotes in. 
Whether it's no common or not it's a bad idea that needs changing sooner 
rather than later.

Ryan


T.J. Crowder wrote:
>> I'd hope the specification could be amended based on Yahia's excellent points.
>>      
>
> +1 to that.  Having the UA add the quotes is not a good idea, and will
> almost certainly lead to hacks like UAs looking to see if the quotes
> are already there and only adding them if they're not.
>
> Even if IE8, FF3.5, et. al. and such are already doing this, they're
> implementing the bleeding edge of this spec and should be agile enough
> to cope with changes to it as it is finalised.
> --
> T.J. Crowder
>
>
> 2009/9/2 Seth Call<sethcall@gmail.com>
>    
>> For IE8, FF 3.5, and Opera 10 (although not Safari 4), this behavior of adding quotes is done with the default CSS style sheet of the browser; not in the HTML rendering itself.
>>
>> If you style q like so:
>>
>>      
>>> q:before {
>>>    content: no-open-quote;
>>> }
>>>
>>> q:after {
>>>    content: no-close-quote;
>>> }
>>>        
>> Then the quotes go away in those 3 browsers.
>>
>> I'd hope the specification could be amended based on Yahia's excellent points.
>>
>>
>> Seth
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Ian Hickson<ian@hixie.ch>  wrote:
>>      
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, Yahia Chlyeh wrote:
>>>        
>>>> Having quotation punctuation generated by the user agent is utterly
>>>> wrong. This discussion has been going from a long time ago in the
>>>> mailing lists. Quotation marks for the /q/ element should be provided in
>>>> the source so that 1) non-graphical user agents can represent them,
>>>> otherwise the content would be flawed,
>>>>          
>>> Why can't non-graphical user agents insert quotes also?
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> and 2) to avoid issues that arise when writing content in different
>>>> languages: in French for example, the reference of the quote is written
>>>> inside the quote inside quotation marks (..., he whispered, ...) while
>>>> in English that's put outside the quotation marks;
>>>>          
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> there's also problems with punctuation in/outside quotation marks that's
>>>> different in languages.
>>>>          
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> After all these arguments, the best is to prevent automatic generation
>>>> of quotation marks and notify web authors to add them outside the /q/
>>>> element itself, since if quotes generation is preserved, then why not
>>>> auto generate periods for end of /p/ elements too?
>>>>          
>>> IE8, Firefox, Safari, and Opera all render quotes. We lost this war.
>>>
>>> You don't have to use<q>  though.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
>>> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
>>> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
>>>
>>>        
>
>    


-- 
Web Designer


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Received on Wednesday, 2 September 2009 13:57:15 GMT

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