[Bug 24591] Make W3C HTML5 spec clearly and correctly state that table@border is obsolete & invalid (nonconforming)

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24591

--- Comment #11 from Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> ---
(In reply to Michael[tm] Smith from comment #0)

> "presentational markup has been removed from HTML in this version. This
> change should not come as a surprise; HTML4 deprecated presentational markup
> many years ago and provided a mode (HTML4 Transitional) to help authors move
> away from presentational markup; later, XHTML 1.1 went further and obsoleted
> those features altogether.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/introduction.
> html#presentational-markup

Mike, having calmed down a little so that I can better read, two things:

1) Perhaps I should not trust my recollection of events in 2011 [yeah, I am
really dragging my feet with regard to reopen this issue mentally and
otherwise], but I have a very vivid memory that both Ian and Tab contributed
rebuttals against table@border and that “just say no to presentational markup”
was a central point in each rebutall. On their behalf, I a feel insulted that
you think they did not bring this up.

2) Above you quote the Introduction section to HTML5. But not very accurately.
Here are some details regarding ”1.10.1 Presentational markup” - emphasis is
mine:
  a) Quote: ”This section is non-normative.”
  b) Quote: ”The __majority___ of presentational features from 
             previous versions of HTML are no longer allowed. ”

As for your quote, namely ”presentational markup has been removed from HTML in
this version”, then this is not a description of a principle that has been
followed but a description of an action that has been carried out. The *full*
sentence goes: ”__For those reasons,__ presentational markup has been removed
from HTML in this version.” This is of course a sentence I agree 100% with
since, regardless of whether table@border is presentational or not, as the
sentence does not say that __all__ presentational markup has been removed.

And what were ”those reaons” which lead HTML5 to remove presentational markup?
Those were, says same section, these:

”The use of presentational elements leads to poorer accessibility”
”Higher cost of maintenance”
”Larger document sizes”

You tell me which of those apply for table@border.

The last sentence of this section of the spec is clearly compatible with
table@border too - if you like, feel free to add table@border there:

”It is also worth noting that some elements that were previously presentational
have been redefined in this specification to be media-independent: b, i, hr, s,
small, and u.”

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the QA Contact for the bug.

Received on Tuesday, 18 February 2014 01:15:19 UTC