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[Bug 20420] Clarify, with ARIA language, if role of <main> can be overridden.

From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 12:01:10 +0000
To: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
Message-ID: <bug-20420-2486-3iCGMx6Mnz@http.www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/>

Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
             Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
         Resolution|WORKSFORME                  |---

--- Comment #4 from Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> ---
(In reply to comment #3)


I now see that you were only confused with regard to what "strong native
semantics" implies. Hence, I instead propose this solution:

(1) Delete the word "presentation" from your spec text, and then it would be
all good. This solution is also supported by the fact that HTML5 does not say
that "presentation" is allowed for elements with strong native semantics.
(2) Also, you *should* clarify that the wordings "strong native semantics" and
"default implicit semantics" stems from ARIA. (Actually, "default implicit
semantics" stems from HTML5, since ARIA’s corresponding term is "implicit
semantics" - so you should perhaps says "implicit semantics instead" - sigh.)

PS! Some notes about what you said:

> Hi leif, note the first table  second column header:
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-strong-native-
> semantics "Strong native semantics and default implicit ARIA semantics"

Yeah. And? Nothing is said there about "presentation".

Btw, the HTML5 spec is currently somewhat unclear since, for the elements of
the STRONG table, it defines them to have 'strong native semantics' *AND*
'default implicit semantics'. It would be less confusing (to me, at least) if
it instead said 'strong implicit semantics'.

But regardless: The "strong native semantics" is defined (via a link) to have
the same meaning as in ARIA 1.0. And that "default implicit semantics" is
defined (via a link) to have the same meaning as "implicit semantics" in ARIA

So does *ARIA* say that elemements with strong native semantics can have
"presentation" role? The answer is "no". Citing ARIA 1.0:

Host languages MAY document features that cannot be overridden with WAI-ARIA
(these are called "strong native semantics"). These can be features that have
implicit WAI-ARIA semantics, as well as features where the processing would be
uncertain if the semantics were changed with WAI-ARIA. Conformance checkers MAY
signal an error or warning when a WAI-ARIA role is used on elements with strong
native semantics, but as described above, user agents MUST still use the value
of the the semantic of the WAI-ARIA role when exposing the element to
accessibility APIs.

I would not say that it would necessarily be against ARIA if HTML5 — or the
<main> spec - allowed both "main" and "presentation" role. But HTML5 [or should
I say HTML5.1?] currently doesn't allow presentation for strong native
semantics elements.

> Also note that role=presentation can be used on any element. I argued
> against this but Ian prevailed.

Well, I personally might actually agree more with Ian, then. ;-) But that is
not the point. The point is what the spec *currently* says. And currently, then
for the strong native semantics table, then I can see no trace of the battle
you had with Ian. (Only in the next table, over "none-strong" native semantics,
is there such a "presentation" permission.)

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Received on Wednesday, 19 December 2012 12:01:12 UTC

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