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[Bug 11206] New: Presentational tag [font,b,u,i] CANNOT be removed for many reasons. Three scenarios very good scenarios: 1. HTML5 Mobile sites with BlackBerry8xxx and 9xxx support 2. HTML5 Emails 3. Legacy content 4. Injected legacy content via iframe/scripts 1) Producin

From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 08:44:57 +0000
To: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
Message-ID: <bug-11206-2486@http.www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/>
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11206

           Summary: Presentational tag [font,b,u,i] CANNOT be removed for
                    many reasons. Three scenarios very good scenarios: 1.
                    HTML5 Mobile sites with BlackBerry8xxx and 9xxx
                    support 2. HTML5 Emails 3. Legacy content 4. Injected
                    legacy content via iframe/scripts 1) Producin
           Product: HTML WG
           Version: unspecified
          Platform: Other
               URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
        OS/Version: other
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P3
         Component: HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson)
        AssignedTo: ian@hixie.ch
        ReportedBy: contributor@whatwg.org
         QAContact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
                CC: mike@w3.org, public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org,
                    public-html@w3.org


Specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/
Section: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top

Comment:
Presentational tag [font,b,u,i] CANNOT be removed for many reasons.

Three scenarios very good scenarios:
1. HTML5 Mobile sites with BlackBerry8xxx and 9xxx support
2. HTML5 Emails
3. Legacy content
4. Injected legacy content via iframe/scripts

1) Producing a mobile HTML5 website for iPhone, iPad, Android
and old BlackBerry 8xxx series.

The old BlackBerry needs presentational tags to work at all,
it does not support CSS. In some BlackBerry,
the phone comes out of the box with JavaScript disabled
and it has been found in testing that when JavaScript is disabled,
if any support for CSS is also present on that phone,
the CSS engine is ALSO disabled! (Total non-sense but true)

In the case of old BlackBerry, it often does not respect BLOCK elements
and those are forcefully rendered INLINE.

Some known work-around exists such as using a fix-width series of inlined
content that will seems to be displayed like BLOCK element,
while still having an enhanced CSS3 look on iPhone/iPad/Android
using the same HTML page content.

Some proponents will suggest using two different mobile websites or
server-side technology to serve different version of HTML for these models.

Unfortunately, many of our clients asks their provider to provide a mobile
website that use NO SERVER-SIDE technology whatsoever, this means:
JSP,ASP,ASPX,C#,PHP,Perl,SHTML or similar are not allowed for security
reasons,
only plain HTML/CSS/JavaScript are allowed.

Furthermore, maintaining the textual content in various HTML versions
would be a total maintenance nightmare.

2. When sending HTML emails to be read on various email clients,
some will render them without formatting, some will render them
only with presentational tag and some will also render the CSS.

So, to have a consistent layout for all of those use cases, presentational tag

duplicating the CSS styling is required and no ignoring this large portion of
end-user who do not have CSS capable email clients is NOT an option.

3. Legacy pages or web application that needs to be maintained
or must "quickly" be improved to have a CSS3/iPhone/Android look.

In those case, presentational tag will be overridden by CSS 
on those specific targets.

Finally, presentational tags are currently working in all browsers,
I can fully understand the CSS arguments, the problem is that 
they are often used to work-around either browser bugs 
or are already used in legacy projects.


Posted from: 66.131.214.18

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Received on Wednesday, 3 November 2010 08:45:00 GMT

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