{minutes} HTML A11Y Task Force 11 September 2014

Draft minutes available at:
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-html-a11y-minutes.html

Text version of the minutes follows:

W3C
- DRAFT -

HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

11 Sep 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
janina, Judy, Sam, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ShaneM, David_MacDonald,
Adrian_Roselli, paulc, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Liam, LJWatson
Regrets
Mark_Sadecki
Chair
Janina
Scribe
ShaneM, ShaneM_
Contents

Topics
Identify Scribe
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
TPAC 2014
Longdesc CR Progress
Our Alt Note http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html
Captcha
Other Business
Event Enumeration
Other Business
Summary of Action Items
<trackbot> Date: 11 September 2014
Identify Scribe
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<janina> xregrets: Mark_Sadecki
<ShaneM_> ScribeNick: ShaneM
<ShaneM_> ScribeNick: ShaneM_
TPAC 2014

Already identified some potential topics. Should be a good opportunity for
joint meetings at TPAC.

Longdesc CR Progress

Call for consensus closed last night.

We did get 4 negative responses. More than 4 positive responses.

There needs to be a telecon during the CfC. That is this call.

There is no directors decision yet on the FO.

One CfC comment was that the document cannot proceed to the next phase
until the FO decision is issued.

that is consistent with the action already requested by the TF
Co-Facilitators and I believe supported by the HTML WG Chairs for an
expedited decision by the director.

it should be handled prior to the transition request - where that is the
request to the AB for transition to PR, but in this case we're also trying
to get it addressed prior to the CfC in the HTML WG.

basically, it is in process.

Our Alt Note http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html

this document still need some edits.

janina: Can Liam make these edits?

liam: yes, next week.

Captcha

<janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CAPTCHA_v2
janina: might want to update the note. there are change that have been made
to make them more accessible.

<David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Captcha_Alternatives_and_thoughts
janina: for example some services will offer to call you or send an SMS.
there's room to update.

<David> we've discussed it in WCAG
janina: seem to gets back burnered a lot by PF. Maybe this is something the
task force could take up.

Cyns: COGA has done some thinking about it.

David: WCAG has as well

janina: could someone help update the wiki?

Judy: glad to hear that multiple groups are thinking about this, but also
concerned that there is duplicate work going on
... if WAI groups are working on this sending that info to the coordination
group would help that everyone knows what is being done
... this is a very high priority for doing something about this in China,
for example.
... whatever comes out next with regard to CAPTCHA guidance should have
more practical guidance. Techniques that could help make sure that
developers have a good example they can grab and go with.

janina: techniques alone are a good enough reason to republish. There are
lots of new options that we can help people use effectively.

<Zakim> ShaneM_, you wanted to ask about webdeveloper.org
ShaneM_: If this is for the public isn't webplatform.org a good place to
help developers with good examples?

Judy: well - it should be delivered in a many places. webplatform.org is
one. and many groups can be working on this. They just should be
coordinating.

<JF> JF notes that its not duplicate effort, but rather complimentary
efforts
There is some deployment of the audio backing / sms messages as an a11y
assist. google, ebay, microsoft were examples. not sure how international
it is.

liam: there are some assumptions that sms messages are ubiquitous and
cheap, and that's just not true.

janina: well we have a principle that there should always be multiple
solutions.

JF: we are seeing a transition to multi-factor authentication. that's one
of the places where SMS is coming in. CAPTCHA is sort of a way to have more
perceived security.
... examples are a text with a code, or they will call you with a digitized
thing, or an email with the MF authentication information.
... it is possible we can help people move away from CAPTCHA when security
is a goal, instead looking at more modern MF authentication techniques.

janina: sounds like there is good interest in updating this note.

Judy: is there a specific TF piece of this? Or is this just FYI to the task
force?

janina: no - we are looking at places where to focus our energies in this
task force. Updating this document might be such a task force activity.
... the next step is to pull together the pieces from the 5.1 opportunities
wiki to decide priorities and who is going to do what

Other Business

Event Enumeration

janina: we are discussing this because there is A11Y interest in being able
to find registered events, and the HTML working group owns the DOM spec now.

richardschwerdtfeger: we need to be able to determine if there are certain
classes of event handlers (e.g., keyboard handler) are registered on an
element.
... important for checking design patterns, useful for IndieUI, and useful
for ARIA 2.0
... we need to know, for example, if there is a mouse handler. and if there
is, then there had better been a keyboard handler as well.

ShaneM_: there seem to be objections to the based upon security concerns.
It would make it easier to intercept or supplant handlers with man in the
middle style attacks.

janina: it would be nice if we could discuss this at TPAC to see if there
is a way forward.
... note that it would also help with a11y checkers and validators.

<Zakim> liam, you wanted to note a large part of html5 is to end that
liam: a large part of the html5 work is to make things work the same across
all browsers

<paulc> From the DOM4 spec; "This document is published as a snapshot of
the DOM Living Standard with the intent of keeping the differences from the
original to a strict minimum, and only through subsetting (only things that
are not implemented were removed for this publication). "
liam: it is not okay if things work differently. Browser specialization is
the opposite of what we want to achieve.

paulc: DOM4 is a strict subset of the DOM living standard. If we need to
make changes the DOM it may be difficult to get that done.
... the HTML working group may not be very open to diverging from the
living standard.

janina: PF is somewhat aware of this. PF had discussed possibly preparing
an extension spec.

paulc: doing an extension spec might not be a bad idea. Working on this
with the correct people under the correct license would help with adoption
into the Living Standard.
... we would need topic experts and implementors involved too.

janina: what we see as the main problem is convincing the non-A11Y people
that there is something worthy of developing an extension spec. It would
need to be 'well reviewed' by the experts.
... if we can get the right people at the table during TPAC that would help.

paulc: what edits are needed to the alt-text document? What did liam agree
to?

janina: the front matter / boiler plate needs to be put in. Prepare it for
a working group Note.
... if longdesc becomes a rec the note will need an update. if
aria-describedat makes it into aria 1.1, the note will also need an update.

Other Business

No scribe volunteers.

Summary of Action Items

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Succeeded: s/that's why the chairs asked/that is consistent with the action
already requested by the TF Co-Facilitators and I believe supported by the
HTML WG Chairs/
Succeeded: s/for transition to PR/for transition to PR, but in this case
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Default Present: janina, Judy, Sam, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ShaneM,
David_MacDonald, Adrian_Roselli, paulc, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Liam,
LJWatson
Present: janina Judy Sam Rich_Schwerdtfeger ShaneM David_MacDonald
Adrian_Roselli paulc John_Foliot Cynthia_Shelly Liam LJWatson
Regrets: Mark_Sadecki
Found Date: 11 Sep 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items:

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