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Re: [MEDIA] Minutes for Media Sub-Group 02 JUN 2014

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 08:37:05 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1W=SAhvvdy0gPFQqWD++YDF-4iEw82_Ayvcv+_+T=z7M=g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Davis <ddavis@w3.org>, WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, HTML A11Y TF Public <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Cc: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>, Kelly Ford <Kelly.Ford@microsoft.com>
Hi Daniel


On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Daniel Davis <ddavis@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks for the compliment!
>
> Regarding the requirements, bullet 2 is already covered by user agents
> that support playbackRate - when the speed is changed the pitch stays
> the same.
>
​That is excellent news! another bullet checked off ​


>
> For bullet 4, however, no browser (that I know of) supports Reset yet,
> and they don't even support changing the rate as part of the native
> controls either. As you say, it's easy to implement, both in the browser
> and by authors, but the biggest blocker may be how to add such functions
> to the UI while keeping them simple to use. Browser vendors so far have
> kept their media controls to a bare minimum so the more practical
> approach may be to encourage third-party media players [1] to
> incorporate such a feature. My impression is that most sites in the wild
> use these media player libraries which allow more customisation and
> cross-browser compatibility, rather than rely on built-in players.
>

​Ideally, the UA would have a robust/full set of controls. the author could
choose a 'standard set' of controls to provide on their page. And, the user
could choose to have a different​

​more robust set always turned on in their browser to meet their needs,
without the author having to do extra work. I am sure there are technical
details that will make this much more complicated than I wish it were. ​

I understand about authors using 3rd party players, the range of abilities
(and holes in feature sets - especially accessibility) is a bit daunting
for authors and troublesome for users. Do you know if there is a way to
override the authors choice of 3rd party player and use the native browser
video player instead?
Jim

>
> Hope this helps,
> Daniel
>
> [1] http://praegnanz.de/html5video/
>
> On 03/06/14 21:31, Jim Allan wrote:
> > Hi Daniel,
> > great demo. is there a possibility that a browser might include these
> > control as part of their standard control set for the media elements?
> > The User Agent Accessibility Guidelines has a success criteria -
> >
> >
> >         2.11.4 Adjustable Playback Rate for Prerecorded Content:
> >
> > The user can adjust the playback rate of prerecorded time-based media
> > content, such that all of the following are true: (Level AA)
> >
> >   * *Playback Rate:* The user can adjust the playback rate of the
> >     time-based media tracks to between 50% and 250% of real time.
> >   * *Pitch:* Speech whose playback rate has been adjusted by the user
> >     maintains pitch in order to limit degradation of the speech quality.
> >   * *Synchronization:* Audio and video tracks remain synchronized
> >     <http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#def-synchronize> across
> >     this required range of playback rates.
> >   * *Reset:* The user agent provides a function that resets the playback
> >     rate to normal (100%).
> >
> > your demo takes care of bullets 1 and 3. I tweaked the rate to 250%. Do
> > you know of any UAs or authoring techniques that will cover bullets 2
> and 4?
> >
> > I would imagine that Reset would be simple to implement by the UA (if
> > they included playbackRate in the default Controls) or by the author.
> > Our (UAWG) preference would be for the UA to provide the functionality
> > so it would be available to all and accessible. The author could skin
> > the control.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Daniel Davis <ddavis@w3.org
> > <mailto:ddavis@w3.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi Janine,
> >
> >     Regarding your possible new use case - timescale modification - I
> had a
> >     similar use case but was told on the TV IG call that it already
> exists.
> >     I made a demo to test it and sure enough, HTML5 video and audio
> elements
> >     have a playbackRate attribute that can be changed on-the-fly. Maybe
> this
> >     covers your use case as well.
> >
> >     Anyway, the demo is here if you'd like to try it out:
> >     http://daniemon.com/tech/html5/playbackRate/
> >
> >     Cheers,
> >     Daniel
> >
> >     On 03/06/14 04:47, Mark Sadecki wrote:
> >     > Thanks to everyone who attended today's Media Sub-Group meeting.
> >      Below are the
> >     > minutes in HTML and text format.
> >     >
> >     > HTML:
> >     > http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-html-a11y-media-minutes.html
> >     >
> >     > TEST:
> >     >    [1]W3C
> >     >
> >     >       [1] http://www.w3.org/
> >     >
> >     >              HTML Accessibility Task Force Media Sub-Group
> >     >
> >     > 02 Jun 2014
> >     >
> >     >    See also: [2]IRC log
> >     >
> >     >       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-html-a11y-media-irc
> >     >
> >     > Attendees
> >     >
> >     >    Present
> >     >           JF, MarkS, Kazuyuki, janina, ShaneM, wuwei
> >     >
> >     >    Regrets
> >     >    Chair
> >     >           MarkS
> >     >
> >     >    Scribe
> >     >           MarkS
> >     >
> >     > Contents
> >     >
> >     >      * [3]Topics
> >     >          1. [4]Identify Scribe
> >     >          2. [5]TV & Web: Use Cases and Requirements (update)
> >     >          3. [6]Processing Media Accessibility User Requirements
> >     >             Comments
> >     >          4. [7]Full Transcript
> >     >      * [8]Summary of Action Items
> >     >      __________________________________________________________
> >     >
> >     >    <trackbot> Date: 02 June 2014
> >     >
> >     > Identify Scribe
> >     >
> >     >    <scribe> scribe: MarkS
> >     >
> >     > TV & Web: Use Cases and Requirements (update)
> >     >
> >     >    <kaz> [9]Web&TV minutes
> >     >
> >     >       [9] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: Talked about new use cases on May 28. Everyone was very
> >     >    impresed and interest
> >     >    ... TV Broadcast chair, volunteered to take the lead and check
> >     >    the use cases in detail.
> >     >    ... need to identify what is new and which ones are just
> >     >    extensions.
> >     >    ... may need to reword a bit to fit the IGs use cases better
> >     >    ... the IG has started to review use cases submitted by john
> >     >    and mark. The new use cases submitted by janina will be added
> >     >    to 2nd generation.
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I have a new one that is related to timescale modification.
> >     >    think it would be good to have a use case for it
> >     >    ... useful for people who watch videos in a non-domininant
> >     >    language
> >     >    ... to slow it down
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: Might want to mention advantages to i18n as well
> >     >
> >     >    JS: useful for travellers as well
> >     >
> >     >    MS: do you think we will be able to provide feedback on the
> >     >    outcome of that work soon?
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: yes
> >     >    ... no date yet, will let you know soon.
> >     >    ... AC meeting is next week, so it may take longer than
> >     >    expected.
> >     >
> >     >    MS: anyone attending AC that would be useful to talk to?
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: i will ask
> >     >
> >     >    JS: i will be there on Monday
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: I wanted to thank everyone for your work. great use cases.
> >     >
> >     > Processing Media Accessibility User Requirements Comments
> >     >
> >     >    [10]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/
> >     >
> >     >      [10] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/
> >     >
> >     >    [11]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/#KA-1
> >     >
> >     >      [11] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/#KA-1
> >     >
> >     >    SM: what are we doing with references to other documents?
> >     >
> >     >    MS: Keeping an eye and doing our best to predict stability at
> >     >    this point
> >     >
> >     >    JS: Three steps before we publish
> >     >    ... Need to make sure we are happy with this heartbeat.
> >     >    ... we need to respond to all commenters
> >     >    ... we might want to update vocabulary used since it has
> >     >    changed
> >     >    ...RE: section 4.8 might be a good time to re-write that
> >     >    section. Shouldn't taken long.
> >     >    ... know what we need to say and have gotten feedback
> >     >    ... know we can at least change the title, which is very
> >     >    awkward. Can probably use new term, second screen
> >     >
> >     >    JF: That is very awkward. probably shorten it down. If we are
> >     >    going to use second screen, we want to indicate that it refers
> >     >    to one or more screens/devices
> >     >
> >     >    JS: If you look at Sylvia's response to my email, that
> >     >    addresses that.
> >     >    ... there is understanding that it it more than one or two or
> >     >    three additional devices.
> >     >    ... I wonder if there is a definition somewhere that we can
> >     >    reference
> >     >
> >     >    JF: there is a second screen community group
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: that group is converting to a working group
> >     >
> >     >    <JF> [12]http://www.w3.org/community/webscreens/
> >     >
> >     >      [12] http://www.w3.org/community/webscreens/
> >     >
> >     >    JF: the CG has a definition
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: Use Cases and requirements were discussed in the Web & TV
> >     >    IG, and some of the participants launched a Community Group
> >     >    based on the requirements
> >     >
> >     >    JF: This is a very quiet group. There are some knowlegeable and
> >     >    experienced participants.
> >     >    ... lot of people watching it, but not a lot going on.
> >     >
> >     >    JS: so there may be an API?
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: yes
> >     >
> >     >    JS: That is important
> >     >
> >     >    <kaz> [13]Presentation API
> >     >
> >     >      [13] http://webscreens.github.io/presentation-api/
> >     >
> >     >    JF: If we're going to use this term, we need to have it clearly
> >     >    defined
> >     >    ... there is a concise defintion here. we may want to have a
> >     >    more formal definition somewhere
> >     >
> >     >    JS: it could be a set of bluetooth headphones...
> >     >
> >     >    SM: maybe we should call it secondary device
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I'm not picky about the distinction, but understand its not
> >     >    always literally a visual display
> >     >
> >     >    JF: so, the discussion is whether or not we want to use the
> >     >    term second screen, but based on this convo, it might be too
> >     >    limiting
> >     >
> >     >    SM: It's not second, its secondary
> >     >
> >     >    <JF> suggestion: 4.8 Requirements on the parallel use of
> >     >    alternative content on secondary screens and other devices
> >     >
> >     >    <janina>
> >     >    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Ma
> >     >    y/0099.html
> >     >
> >     >      [14]
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014May/0099.html
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I think we can take out alternative. Secondary screens and
> >     >    other devices is circular, self-referential
> >     >
> >     >    <ShaneM> suggestion: 4.8 Requirements on secondary screens and
> >     >    other devices
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I like that
> >     >
> >     >    JF: I like that
> >     >
> >     >    MS: me too
> >     >
> >     >    JS: the rest of the section needs to be improved as well
> >     >    ... take out references to UAAG and put it in the document
> >     >    directly
> >     >    ... I propose I take an action to rewrite this section
> >     >
> >     >    JF: Looking at comment from Jim Allen, the title and intro
> >     >    should be changed.
> >     >    ... we can remove that comment and make sure the rest of the
> >     >    comments from UAAG have been addressed.
> >     >
> >     >    JS, MarkS, and JF will not be available next week. Propose
> >     >    skipping next weeks meeting. Review rewritten text for this
> >     >    section in two weeks
> >     >
> >     >    JF: I think we just need to focus on the title and the
> >     >    preamble. I think we can work on this via email
> >     >
> >     >    JS: Has there been any discussions in other groups regarding
> >     >    this section, or were they not aware that this applies to 2nd
> >     >    screen
> >     >
> >     >    KAZ: the idea of 2nd screen itself is not necessarily a
> >     >    secondary device. During the Munich workshop, some participants
> >     >    mentioned iPhone or iPad, usually 2nd screen could be the
> >     >    primary device.
> >     >    ... need to be careful how we refer to these devices
> >     >    ... perhpas we can ask them to clarify
> >     >    ... multiple devices or multiple modalities
> >     >
> >     >    JF: its not talking about screens, its talking about multiple
> >     >    devices, consuming the same media stream, different ways on
> >     >    different devices.
> >     >    ... the group is probably focused on video, not audio.
> >     >    ... I think the preamble is where it needs to be cleaned up.
> >     >    ... its deliberately broad. need to expand on it in the
> >     >    introduction
> >     >
> >     >    MS: any other sections that need work before we publish next
> >     >    draft?
> >     >
> >     >    JF: i don't remember reviewing the long list of feedback from
> >     >    UAAG.
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I think we did that already
> >     >
> >     >    <JF> (UAAG feedback here:
> >     >    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Ju
> >     >    l/0108.html)
> >     >
> >     >      [15]
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0108.html)
> >     >
> >     >    JF: we should remove link to that sentence then.
> >     >
> >     >    <scribe> ACTION: MarkS to remove reference to UAWG email in
> >     >    seciton 4.8 [recorded in
> >     >    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-html-a11y-media-minutes.html#a
> >     >    ction01]
> >     >
> >     >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-264 - Remove reference to uawg email
> >     >    in seciton 4.8 [on Mark Sadecki - due 2014-06-09].
> >     >
> >     >    JS: EO will look at section two before our fall heartbeat
> >     >    (hopefully LC)
> >     >
> >     >    JF: Comment 33: CA-4, support filters. Clean audio, still
> >     >    refers to pre-emphasis filters. Did we agree/disagree?
> >     >    ... I think we need to go through these again to make sure they
> >     >    were all addressed
> >     >    ... there are 83 comments
> >     >
> >     >    JS: We did not accept all of them
> >     >
> >     >    JF: we refer to pre-emphasis filters. comment suggested we
> >     >    shoudl just use filters
> >     >
> >     >    JS: i think that was a spelling mistake
> >     >
> >     >    JF: I will take a quick look at these to make sure they were
> >     >    all addressed.
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I'll look at minutes to see when we took these comments up
> >     >
> >     > Full Transcript
> >     >
> >     >    JS: we have two proposals
> >     >
> >     >    [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Full_Transcript
> >     >
> >     >      [17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Full_Transcript
> >     >
> >     >    scribe: Plan 2014 specifies that we can create an extension
> >     >    spec
> >     >
> >     >    JF: Adrian expressed interest in this. I will have a chat with
> >     >    him.
> >     >
> >     >    JS: I will look for minutes
> >     >
> >     >    MS: suggest adding any historical work to this wiki page so we
> >     >    can make an informed decision on how to move forward.
> >     >
> >     >    next meeting in two weeks
> >     >
> >     > Summary of Action Items
> >     >
> >     >    [NEW] ACTION: MarkS to remove reference to UAWG email in
> >     >    seciton 4.8 [recorded in
> >     >    [18]http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-html-a11y-media-minutes.html#a
> >     >    ction01]
> >     >
> >     >    [End of minutes]
> >     >      __________________________________________________________
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version
> >     >     1.138 ([20]CVS log)
> >     >     $Date: 2014-06-02 19:45:33 $
> >     >
> >     >      [19]
> >     http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
> >     <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
> >     >      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
> >     >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
> > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> > voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
>



-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Tuesday, 3 June 2014 13:37:32 UTC

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